Finding the lands in Savage rifle

[uncle-buck]

Has anyone been successful in finding the lands using the 'bolt lift' method on a Savage?

Saw a video posted here which showed the ejector and firing pin removed from the bolt followed by testing successively shorter CBTOs until there was no 'click' when lifting the bolt.

I tried the method, but the bolt head retaining pin kept falling out.

 

[std7mag]

I always do mine with the bolt assembled.
With no pressure against the pin, there is nothing to hold it in.

 

[BeefyT11]

I believe if you remove the cocking pin from the bolt, but leave the firing pin in place. You will keep the retaining pin in place but you wont have the camming feel of the bolt, because it wont cock the firing pin.

 

[foxguy]

I have used that method, and have experienced the Pin falling out. Putting heavy grease on it will help to keep it in place while testing. After completion of the testing, clean the bolt and reassemble.

I really like this method of finding the Case shoulder headspace number and finding when the bullet touches the lands.

 

[Texas10]

You can forget the bolt drop method with a Savage action, or any action that is not custom made.

This is how to get precise measurements using the widely available Hornaday OAL tool and appropriate LNL modified case. You don't have to use this tool, you can make your own but I'll describe the procedure as a first step.

First clean your barrel and chamber. If you don't have a method of visually verifying that your chamber and throat are clear of carbon, you're already off to a bad start. Get a Teslong borescope if you don't already have one so you know the chamber and throat are clean. This is important for precise measurements although the whole process itself is just a handy starting point for bullet seating.

Using the LNL modified case, neck size or FL size the case and seat a bullet long. Mount it on the tool (forget the gray push bar) and slide it into the chamber with a firm push. Now retract. Any tendency to stick indicates the bullet is in the lands. Return the case to the press and seat the bullet .010 or so deeper and repeat.

When you can't feel the bullet sticking upon retraction, you're off the lands. Now move the bullet forward slightly and finetune the seat depth until you can feel the bullet just starting to have a slight resistence upon withdrawal. Measure and record your findings for that bullet and lot number.

When you're really good at this procedure you can toss the Hornaday tool, and using your fire formed brass, drill and tap the flash hole for a section of 3 piece cleaning rod. Use it exactly like before, only now you don't have to account for the difference in base to datum measurement during your seating test. Remember, the case headspaces off the shoulder, so once your brass has expanded to fill the chamber completely, your base to ogive measurements become much more accurate. That is why it's better to use your fully fireformed cases rather than the Hornaday LNL modified case.

This whole process takes me about 8-10 minutes. No bolt disassembly required, in fact the bolt isn't even in the gun. I do this for each lot of bullets IF I've found that best seating depth is a very small window, 3 to 5 thousandths. You'll also do this because as the lands erode, you'll need to be shifting the bullet forward to keep your best distance, whether that's in or off of the lands.

 

[bsekf]

I use a "slip case" and don't remove anything from the bolt. I use the Hornady comparator in good calipers. And take many readings. You are only looking for a base number.

 

[Coyotefurharvester]

There's lands in Savage barrel? LOL.

 

[SealT5]

Yes. I’ve done it 100 times in my Bighorn’s. The trick is to put a dab of tube grease on that pin and it will stay in place. I also clean the lugs and put oil on them as I feel it helps improve the feel. Goodluck

Joe S

 

[Lefty Trigger]

I just use the Hornady OAL tool and have had good results with it.

 

[Poor Shot 65]

I only do this for my savage - I use old pieces of brass then expand the necks to .001 greater than the bullet. Put epoxy in the brass neck and seat the bullet long. Chamber the round and wait 15 minutes.

For BAT and Borden actions I use the Wheeler method to find the lands.

I am not a fan of savage actions ..

Adam

 

[AllenOne1]

I used the bolt lift method on my model 10. It was a lot of messing around and it still came down to feel, not as cut and dried as on the Remington based custom actions. But when I was done is was within .002 of the reading I got with the Hornady OAL length tool.

 

[RetiredArmy]

I tried the method, but the bolt head retaining pin kept falling out.[/QUOTE]

Put a small piece of clear scotch tape over both ends of the pin. Don't wrap it around, just a small piece on both ends.
Thanks Bill

 

[Zero333]

I used the stripped bolt method on 2 of my Savages, but I put clear tape at the ends of the bolt head retaining pin so it did fall out. It worked like a charm.

I compared the Hornady COAL tool measurements with the stripped bolt measurements and the results were always within 0.002" of each other.

 

[1911nut]

On one 22-250 Savage barrel I had I was looking for “touch” Length with several bullets using a disassembled bolt.

all I got was a ring on the bullets, never did find the square marks from the lands on the bullets I was looking for. That barrel shot well but was a copper mine.

 

[memilanuk]

You can forget the bolt drop method with a Savage action

I call BS on that. Done it many times.

I believe if you remove the cocking pin from the bolt, but leave the firing pin in place. You will keep the retaining pin in place but you wont have the camming feel of the bolt, because it wont cock the firing pin.

Bingo.

Remove the wave washer, and both front & rear battles as well.

 

[kolar55]

The Wheeler stripped bolt drop method works just as well on a 700 as it does on my Panda. All you have to do is remove the firing pin and the ejector.

 

[Zero333]

I believe if you remove the cocking pin from the bolt, but leave the firing pin in place. You will keep the retaining pin in place but you wont have the camming feel of the bolt, because it wont cock the firing pin.

Thanks mate !

I can't believe many of us haven't thought of it.

 

[Texas10]

I call BS on that. Done it many times.



Bingo.

Remove the wave washer, and both front & rear battles as well.

You'll note I didn't say it can't be done. With your particular tools, skills, gun, and caliber you may find it works well however, that is far from being a universal result. A small error in bolt timing or hand off in a mass produced gun will produce wildly different results. You may have made many refinements to your bolt and action, or you may have a completely factory gun that just happens to be "one in a million". I find 30 cal bullets easiest to get accurate results, but 223 the hardest. Again, far from universal.

The process I've described will work everytime, regardless of caliber, or manufacturing variances AND does not require disassembly of the bolt. I believe that is an important difference to someone new to handloading and trying to understand the process. I challenge you to try it and compare to your method in degree of accuracy and time spent, as well as measurements taken as the lands erode over time. This is where a few thousandths here and there matter to me. But maybe that's just me.

 

[uncle-buck]

Thank you, gentlemen. Your replies are much appreciated.

 

[atblis]

I only do this for my savage - I use old pieces of brass then expand the necks to .001 greater than the bullet. Put epoxy in the brass neck and seat the bullet long. Chamber the round and wait 15 minutes.

For BAT and Borden actions I use the Wheeler method to find the lands.

I am not a fan of savage actions ..

Adam

I was about to post something similar to this. I've found super glue to be sufficient. Same difference. I use a Lee collet neck sizing die on the fired brass, just ease up on the handle a bit so as to not completely resize the neck, and the bullet can slide.