Strange coincidence- two dies, both too long

[wolfman]

I have two 6.5 CM FL sizing dies, and they both refuse to bump shoulders enough. Cases are fired fired in two different chambers, a Ruger RPR, and a custom cut chamber. One die is a Forster Fl, and one is a Hornardy FL, and both are just a hair too long. I have tried every shell holder I have- roughly 4-5 differnt ones, looking for one a touch shorter, but no joy. It strikes me that it is quite the coincidence that I have managed to find 2 such dies. I can't even blame a strange chamber, since I get the same result from brass fired in two different chambers. Any other time I would simply shorten up a shell holder and keep it in the box with the die, but I'm tempted to send the dies back to their respective manufacturer and ask them to shorten them a hair. I do have a harbour friend mini lathe, so I suppose I could attempt to shorten them myself, but I'm guessing even the bottom of the die is hardened?

 

[FeMan]

I had a similar experience with a 6.5x47L that was chambered very tight. I could not get my (old) brass to size enough to chamber easily. I bought new brass and it has been fine ever since. If your brass was fired in a different chamber you might try brand new stuff. Brass has an amazing "memory" and once you fire it in a chamber it quickly starts to set to the dimensions.

If I was going to shorten anything, it would be a shell holder. They are far cheaper than dies and one that is shortened will work fine for sizing a longer chamber.

 

[wolfman]

Ordinarily I would agree with you, but this first surfaced with cases that came from factory ammo fired in a friend's RPR. I think I'll shorten a shell holder first, just to get myself going, but it still seems strange.

 

[dstoenner]

I had the same issue with both Whidden and Forster 6x47 FL dies. I choose to grind off the bottom of the die about .015. I use Redding Competition shell holders to control how much shoulder setback i get so doing a shell holder wasn't an option.

David

 

[bozo699]

I have had this problem before and simply milled the shell holder and keep it in the die box.
Wayne

 

[rsmithsr50]

(just one more reason to not own a 6.5 cm)

 

[Uncle Ed]

Ordinarily I would agree with you, but this first surfaced with cases that came from factory ammo fired in a friend's RPR. I think I'll shorten a shell holder first, just to get myself going, but it still seems strange.

You are sizing cases fired in someone else's chamber and they are springing back after sizing.

Try pausing for 4 or 5 seconds at the top of the ram stroke to reduce brass spring back.

 

[dolek]

(just one more reason to not own a 6.5 cm)

How original ....

 

[AndyTaber]

I have experienced this as well with a 6BR bushing die. i had the die set as tight to the shell holder as I could get it until my brass grew enough that I had very hard bolt closing. I took eight thousands off the bottom of the die to solve the problem. I can now maintain the shoulder properly. This wasn’t the end of it as I had to do the same thing to two other dies from fellow shooters at the club that switched to a 6BR and were having the same problem.

 

[Lefty Trigger]

Could be the chamber head space was set short when the barrel was installed. I had a Winchester M70 in .243 that was like that and it required that the die be shortened to resize brass properly, sold that special die with that gun and only own Savage now so I can adjust head space if needed.

 

[dantiff2]

I had the very same issue with a Rem 700 chambered in 30-06. Two different dies would not touch the shoulder. I did as someone else said and had a shell holder thinned down .006" which ended up giving me a .002 bump. Must've been a worn out reamer used that day!

 

[linebaugh]

I just had this issue for the first time ever with a set of 20 PPC dies. No idea why and I thought I was losing my mind when I was sizing them. I finally ended up chucking the die up and taking .010 off of the bottom. That fixed it.
Very strange to see this post as I had never in my life experienced this myself and figured it a complete fluke.

 

[Webster]

I have two 6.5 CM FL sizing dies, and they both refuse to bump shoulders enough. Cases are fired fired in two different chambers, a Ruger RPR, and a custom cut chamber. One die is a Forster Fl, and one is a Hornardy FL, and both are just a hair too long. I have tried every shell holder I have- roughly 4-5 differnt ones, looking for one a touch shorter, but no joy. It strikes me that it is quite the coincidence that I have managed to find 2 such dies. I can't even blame a strange chamber, since I get the same result from brass fired in two different chambers. Any other time I would simply shorten up a shell holder and keep it in the box with the die, but I'm tempted to send the dies back to their respective manufacturer and ask them to shorten them a hair. I do have a harbour friend mini lathe, so I suppose I could attempt to shorten them myself, but I'm guessing even the bottom of the die is hardened?

All reamers have a tolerance plus the gunsmiths human tolerance. Cases fired in my 6BR won't chamber in my 6BRX. I have to FF my 6BRX with new cases. If you can easily chamber a fired case it doesn't need to be bumped. Let it grown until you start to get tight bolt closure then bump back from that length. Guys reading this website are obsessed with bumping. First you need to detrmine if you need to bump.. If they do it sounds like grinding a few thou off the shell holder is the answer.

 

[KY_Windage]

I just grind a little off the bottom of the die. It's not like the bottom ever gets used for anything. It doesn't even matter whether you keep it square of not, other than cosmetics.

My shell holders, OTOH, get used in other devices, e.g., trimming.

 

[bozo699]

All reamers have a tolerance plus the gunsmiths human tolerance. Cases fired in my 6BR won't chamber in my 6BRX. I have to FF my 6BRX with new cases. If you can easily chamber a fired case it doesn't need to be bumped. Let it grown until you start to get tight bolt closure then bump back from that length. Guys reading this website are obsessed with bumping. First you need to detrmine if you need to bump.. If they do it sounds like grinding a few thou off the shell holder is the answer.

I respectfully disagree...... The key to accuracy or rather the key to long range accuracy is consistency!......I personally bump the shoulders every time , I want the case in every way to be the same every time I shoot it.
Wayne

 

[wolfman]

Thanks for your input guys. I'll keep looking into things a bit more before I do anything drastic!

 

[Burnt Powder]

I had the very same issue with a Rem 700 chambered in 30-06. Two different dies would not touch the shoulder. I did as someone else said and had a shell holder thinned down .006" which ended up giving me a .002 bump. Must've been a worn out reamer used that day!

Nothing to do with a worn reamer, just wasn’t run in far enough.

 

[dantiff2]

Nothing to do with a worn reamer, just wasn’t run in far enough.

It's most likely a re-sharpened reamer. It has a VERY large chamber just ahead of the web area which would indicate it was run in plenty far enough, maybe even too far when you see the bulge in the brass : O Regardless, the primary extraction (handle timing) is nonexistent with this particular rifle so I'll chalk it all up to their growing QA issues. It's my beater rifle ; ) Choot's them boolits kinda straight ; )

 

[Webster]

I respectfully disagree...... The key to accuracy or rather the key to long range accuracy is consistency!......I personally bump the shoulders every time , I want the case in every way to be the same every time I shoot it.
Wayne

I was not implying that you shouldn't bump each time. I am just saying that if the case already has plenty of clearance you don't need to bump it. Maybe that's why his dies don't bump. It can take several firings for a new case to fit the chamber. Is the case short and he wants to shorten it more? New factory cases have a lot of case shoulder to chamber shoulder clearance.

 

[dellet]

Most shell holders have enough clearance that you can slide a feeler gauge or card stock under the case. This will give you minimum .002-3” more setback on the shoulder without modifying anything.

I’m curious that you don’t mention if they will chamber in your rifle or not, and if your sure the reason is length if they don’t.