Berger 7mm 190gr long range hybrid

[BIGMAC]

It wot take long for Matt Paroz to lengthen the throat a slight amount to suit.

Will a .200 fb be enough for the Berger 184 and maybe the 190’s
Thanks

 

[dskogman]

Does he need a reamer of the same neck diameter for it to work properly Rod? My Shehane reamer has a .321 neck for Peterson brass so would Matt need a longer reamer with the same neck diameter?

You use a throater to get whatever freebore you want. PTG sells UniThroaters that work well.

 

[MattPeetz]

Does he need a reamer of the same neck diameter for it to work properly Rod? My Shehane reamer has a .321 neck for Peterson brass so would Matt need a longer reamer with the same neck diameter?

a throating reamer has nothing to do with neck diameter. It only cuts the lands. You cut the lands away to get more free bore. It’s a totally different reamer. You can even do it yourself.

https://www.midwayusa.com/product/100717692

 

[MattPeetz]

Will a .200 fb be enough for the Berger 184 and maybe the 190’s
Thanks

you will be down in the “doughnut” area of the neck with that. Probably would be with the 180’s too.

 

[RDavies]

Does he need a reamer of the same neck diameter for it to work properly Rod? My Shehane reamer has a .321 neck for Peterson brass so would Matt need a longer reamer with the same neck diameter?

Matt has plenty of throating reamers to move the throat out as much or as little as you want.

 

[Willow]

Matt has plenty of throating reamers to move the throat out as much or as little as you want.

Copy Rod & Co, thanks for explaining that...never had the need to use one but now I do so your feedback is appreciated.

 

[No i deer]

We will probaly have to wait 6 months too see the 190gr hybrids arrive into the UK..!!

 

[davidjoe]

We will probaly have to wait 6 months too see the 190gr hybrids arrive into the UK..!!

Or just skip them for now and use the existing 195’s. Berger’s two small steps between the 180’s toward the 195’s (184s and now 190’s) shows me that they cannot wring out anymore BC without increasing weight.

The 190’s “appear” pretty close to the 195’s because Berger ships (and tested) them tipped, but does not tip the 195’s. When you tip the 195’s the gap increases to what you’d expect for the added weight.

Berger was tentative back then and put the 195’s in the wrong color box for the match guys. Worse, the printed twist rate changed at least once. I have orange (hunter) boxed 195’s that state 1:8 minimum twist, before it was commonly chosen.

Berger today ships 195’s in the match color yellow boxes. They stop just short of calling them match bullets, per se. Boxes now state 1:9, and I know that works at sea level, and in a .284, and further still, spec reamer no throating. So higher up and larger cases necessarily also work. The bullets have never changed. I’ve shot thousands of them.

Surely they must be hard on brass to start because they are heavy with a long bearing surface - to that I’d say I get more case head pressure from Lapua 180’s than 195’s, by all indicators. I actually slightly down load Scenars in my RSAUMs relative to 195’s.

My 195’s can chronometer 2,300+ at the 1,000 yard etargets at Houston’s elevation, so it’d be more anywhere else. Many open bullets are in the 1,900’s.

My personal longest string of X’s at 1,000 is the back 10 shots of my first relay, with a .284 and 195’s, in 2016.

 

[Titan]

Curious as to what twist you guys are using with the 190s and what your thoughts are on the BC. Just ran a quick test at 1000 and with a 1-9 twist, the retained velocity on target vs muzzle was about 7% lower than advertised.

 

[F Class John]

8.5 twist is what I tested with.

Just used up the last of my test bullets and finished with my 5 shot groups all under 1/2moa. The best had an ES of 3 and an SD of 1.2 with a 2.81” total vertical at 1000yds. While I’m not totally happy with the 2.8” vertical I have no doubt I’ll get it under 2” once I have more bullets to tune with. Overall I was REALLY happy with the 190s and can’t wait to use them in the real world later this year.

FWIW I was getting on average a 49% retained velocity on target at 1000yds.

 

[Titan]

8.5 twist is what I tested with.

Just used up the last of my test bullets and finished with my 5 shot groups all under 1/2moa. The best had an ES of 3 and an SD of 1.2 with a 2.81” total vertical at 1000yds. While I’m not totally happy with the 2.8” vertical I have no doubt I’ll get it under 2” once I have more bullets to tune with. Overall I was REALLY happy with the 190s and can’t wait to use them in the real world later this year.

FWIW I was getting on average a 49% retained velocity on target at 1000yds.
View attachment 1155316

Thanks for sharing your results I don't suppose you recorded your atmospherics, temperature and pressure or density attitude? I tested three strings of 15 at 1000 in a DA of -435ft muzzle velocities from the different charge weights were 2800 to 2830 and the velocity at 1000 was 1630 - 1650. I had quite poor performance with regard to vertical almost double the my average with the 184s.

 

[F Class John]

Thanks for sharing your results I don't suppose you recorded your atmospherics, temperature and pressure or density attitude? I tested three strings of 15 at 1000 in a DA of -435ft muzzle velocities from the different charge weights were 2800 to 2830 and the velocity at 1000 was 1630 - 1650. I had quite poor performance with regard to vertical almost double the my average with the 184s.

I’m sorry but I don’t even worry about any of that data other than temperature. It was about 48 degrees that day, a little foggy and damp.

 

[McStocks]

THEY'RE SUPPOSED TO BE ARRIVING THIS WEEK, along with the new 208 grain and 220 grain 30 Cal.

McGee's is taking pre-orders:

We are very pleased to announce the introduction of the new Berger Grain Long Range Hybrid Target bullet! It is a 7mm 190 grain LR Hybrid. Send us an email to get on the waiting list! We’ll keep you posted on here as to shipping dates.
Our price is $230 per box of 500.

steve@mcgeestocks.com

 

[The boogalorian]

I am looking at building a straight 284 this year. I will be watching this thread. Very interested in how these perform.

Powder Valley shows 100 count boxes in stock.

 

[McStocks]

We now have a good supply of these besides ALL the new Berger LR Hybrids, including the 2 new 30 calibers!
Steve

 

[bighorn06]

I would appreciate load info from experienced shooters for the 284, 284 Sheahane, and 7SAUM with 30" barrels. I have been inactive for 6yrs, mostly due to age and surgeries. Am trying to get back to 1000yd competition for this season and beyond. I am lucky to have a place to develop at home. I was also lucky to get some 190 Berger hybrids and some Reloader 23 & 26 powder. Also have H4350 and H4831 from past use. H4350 worked best after trying most of the Hogden powders for the 7SAUM & 284.

 

[oht]

After quite a bit of load development. I ended up with the following. Straight 284 1.25" straight 31" 9 twist barrel.

Peterson brass turned to 0.0145" neck wall thickness
190 Berger LRHT
53.0 grains of Reloder 23
Fed GM210M
0.009" off of lands

This gets about 2755 fps at 25 DegF ambient. Very low ES, shoots great. We will see how temp stable this RE-23 is come summer.

 

[bighorn06]

Great response! That gives me a start to "shoot for", (pun intended). Now I can load something and be ready when the weather breaks. Thanks, Mike

 

[ben_g]

After quite a bit of load development. I ended up with the following. Straight 284 1.25" straight 31" 9 twist barrel.

Peterson brass turned to 0.0145" neck wall thickness
190 Berger LRHT
53.0 grains of Reloder 23
Fed GM210M
0.009" off of lands

This gets about 2755 fps at 25 DegF ambient. Very low ES, shoots great. We will see how temp stable this RL-23 is come summer.

I don’t think you will be disappointed with RE23.
I have shot it in a 300wsm for last 12 months and haven’t touched the load, has been very consistent.

 

[Willow]

I don’t think you will be disappointed with RE23.
I have shot it in a 300wsm for last 12 months and haven’t touched the load, has been very consistent.

I concur with Ben on this, I run RL23 in a 280AI and it's very temp stable, moreso than H4350 and H4831SC.