Dusty Stevens
Shiner
We finally recovered from the lyman bore cam within the past year. No telling how many barrels got replaced after folks bought that thing
How Clean Is Too Clean?
- Thread starter Fotheringill
- Start date
rwj
Gold $$ Contributor
!
They're just 'practicing' medicine.Hmmm??? I thought medical doctors or a medical doctor was responsible for this great invention, huh? They like to look into all kinds of orifices.
I try not to over clean. Just run a brush through once or twice, a few patches with Hoppes, a few more to dry it, then 1 oily patch followed by 1 or 2 dry patches. I want to leave a slight coating of oil on the metal and I think it contributes to adding a little carbon in the first shot. Only de-copper and strip a barrel when the accuracy starts going away with known good loads.
I want mine to look like when they came from their mothers when im done cleaning, they usually take 1 or 2 shots to get going but I know that so its all good. I hate any form of carbon in a barrel
BoydAllen
Gold $$ Contributor
Every post about barrel cleaning would be better if it told what kind of barrel. Back in the day, having grown tired of the large number of shots it took to bring a factory barrel to best accuracy after cleaning, and how quickly fouling would makes groups start to grow, I started on my first project to end all of that by buying a .22 caliber 14 twist Hart barrel that eventually became part of a tight neck .222 that I still have. Night and day...really. If you can afford it, replace that factory barrel with one of the highest quality. You won't be sorry.
I clean to bare metal on new to me used rifles. Just started working on my FIL's 338 WM No 1. It would only group brand of ammo decently and not a single hand load. Finally I cleaned it. Turned out its a new used to him. After a day of using boretech eliminator I looked down the muzzle end. I saw thick streaks of copper with out a bore scope. 24 hours with wipe out foam got it clean for sure. Now it's shooting groups, not patterns.
Clean when the rifle tells you to. I do more throat maintenance then I clean the bore with kroil and jb. I use my scope to tell me about carbon rings and to check for fire cracking. I don't think I've put the scope down my most frequently shot barrel burner in over 250 rounds. It still shoots and has been cleaned twice. 22-250AI.
Here's after four cleanings with boretech getting lots of carbon and blue patches in the No 1.
Clean when the rifle tells you to. I do more throat maintenance then I clean the bore with kroil and jb. I use my scope to tell me about carbon rings and to check for fire cracking. I don't think I've put the scope down my most frequently shot barrel burner in over 250 rounds. It still shoots and has been cleaned twice. 22-250AI.
Here's after four cleanings with boretech getting lots of carbon and blue patches in the No 1.
Attachments
Longtrain
Gold $$ Contributor
I cleaned for years thinking that my barrel was clean, it shot ok, but in essence I was just taking the top layer of fouling off. I shoot good barrels, break them in right (IMO), and don’t get visual copper when cleaning until the barrel is getting up there in age.
I pulled a 223 match barrel off and replaced it with a 223AI, it had about 1400 rounds down it and had been “cleaned” as I have done in the past. So with nothing to do one day, I was checking my small barrel inventory, and came across that 223 barrel. I scoped it and could not believe what was in it. The lands and groves were covered with fouling, it looked like a mountain range. I started cleaning it, Butches on a patch came out white! How could that be I could see black streaks in the groves like they were painted on. Hitting it with a bronze brush I slowly got results. The baked on carbon in the groves took JB and a lot of elbow grease.
Now the barrel is really clean, does it need to be this way to shoot? Maybe yes, maybe no. For all those who say, my barrel cleans up with four patches, good for you, I have never seen one. My regime now is to clean and get all the carbon out along with fouling and of course copper if it shows. My rifles shoot great, score well and are consistent match to match. I do send 10 rounds down before a match, is that necessary? I’ve always done it, so I may be just superstitious before a match.
BTW, my round counts are at or beyond anticipated barrel life, cleaning doesn’t seem to affect that issue.
I pulled a 223 match barrel off and replaced it with a 223AI, it had about 1400 rounds down it and had been “cleaned” as I have done in the past. So with nothing to do one day, I was checking my small barrel inventory, and came across that 223 barrel. I scoped it and could not believe what was in it. The lands and groves were covered with fouling, it looked like a mountain range. I started cleaning it, Butches on a patch came out white! How could that be I could see black streaks in the groves like they were painted on. Hitting it with a bronze brush I slowly got results. The baked on carbon in the groves took JB and a lot of elbow grease.
Now the barrel is really clean, does it need to be this way to shoot? Maybe yes, maybe no. For all those who say, my barrel cleans up with four patches, good for you, I have never seen one. My regime now is to clean and get all the carbon out along with fouling and of course copper if it shows. My rifles shoot great, score well and are consistent match to match. I do send 10 rounds down before a match, is that necessary? I’ve always done it, so I may be just superstitious before a match.
BTW, my round counts are at or beyond anticipated barrel life, cleaning doesn’t seem to affect that issue.
What my new Teslong revealed to me was that reading patches was like reading tea leaves. And all along I'd been cleaning while effectively blindfolded. With the ability to look and see what's going on inside the barrel, I can make evidence based decisions on how much cleaning I want to do. No more guessing or reading tea leaves.
It might be revealing to start with a thoroughly clean barrel, shoot it until it has just achieved it's best accuracy, and then strip the powder fouling out of it and see how much copper the barrel preferes, and where the copper starts to build up first.
It might be revealing to start with a thoroughly clean barrel, shoot it until it has just achieved it's best accuracy, and then strip the powder fouling out of it and see how much copper the barrel preferes, and where the copper starts to build up first.
The biggest problem with waiting till your barrel tells you it needs a cleaning is all the points one losses in the telling.
The only folks that need to reduce cleaning, to maintain a built up layer of fouling, are moly users. For all others, you can shoot well with ZERO copper, and light fresh [dry] fouling.
You can see clearly with brass back from the range that the longer carbon exists on the surface, the more difficult it is to remove. You start packing layers of carbon on top of that you fail to remove with every cleaning, and eventually you have a constriction that step changes results (for the worst) from a barrel. By then, you may not be able to fix it without breaking it worse.
And you can't really remove all carbon eventually impinged deeper into the metal. That will build, lifting the profile to constriction. This is normal accurate barrel death. Again, a step change in results (while most people resists acceptance of it). Try to fix this & you'll just tear away scabs of the surface. That remaining will tear away at bullets.
For longest accurate barrel life you need to fill surface profile, but not pack more into it.
Just maintaining a light fresh fouling.
That means cleaning after every session, and dry pre-fouling is a good option for managing both carbon and copper. The pre-fouling needs to be a kind that closely matches carbon, and is easily removed (NOT moly). Best until beaten by something I haven't seen yet is Tungsten Disulfide (WS2).
And taking a bore to dry & leaving it so makes total sense here. It's the condition a fouled bore is in. If you're sure this would lead to corrosion then you need even more to do as I describe here. Clean after every use, put the gun away dry, and maybe take better care of your guns in general. I was taught to always put guns away cleaner than pulled.
Dry pre-fouling is cleaner than the oily sludge most folks leave.
You can see clearly with brass back from the range that the longer carbon exists on the surface, the more difficult it is to remove. You start packing layers of carbon on top of that you fail to remove with every cleaning, and eventually you have a constriction that step changes results (for the worst) from a barrel. By then, you may not be able to fix it without breaking it worse.
And you can't really remove all carbon eventually impinged deeper into the metal. That will build, lifting the profile to constriction. This is normal accurate barrel death. Again, a step change in results (while most people resists acceptance of it). Try to fix this & you'll just tear away scabs of the surface. That remaining will tear away at bullets.
For longest accurate barrel life you need to fill surface profile, but not pack more into it.
Just maintaining a light fresh fouling.
That means cleaning after every session, and dry pre-fouling is a good option for managing both carbon and copper. The pre-fouling needs to be a kind that closely matches carbon, and is easily removed (NOT moly). Best until beaten by something I haven't seen yet is Tungsten Disulfide (WS2).
And taking a bore to dry & leaving it so makes total sense here. It's the condition a fouled bore is in. If you're sure this would lead to corrosion then you need even more to do as I describe here. Clean after every use, put the gun away dry, and maybe take better care of your guns in general. I was taught to always put guns away cleaner than pulled.
Dry pre-fouling is cleaner than the oily sludge most folks leave.
Jay Christopherson
Not An Admin
Last edited:
I bought the $45 non-blue tooth and just opened it as a Christmas gift. This USB unit has full dimming control that the blue tooth version does not seem to have and came with three mirrors.
Saw some scary stuff in the few barrels I looked at. My 1933 Mosin was worse than the "horrible" I already knew was in there. My 357 and 44 Rossi R92 barrels were not as bad as expected except for the tooling in the chambers. My 308 Savage 10FCP had way more chatter marks than I expected, and my problematic 24" AR15 looked perfect!(?)
I found very few signs of fouling so I guess I was already adequately (or over) cleaning. Regardless, I really like it and I am happy to own one.
Saw some scary stuff in the few barrels I looked at. My 1933 Mosin was worse than the "horrible" I already knew was in there. My 357 and 44 Rossi R92 barrels were not as bad as expected except for the tooling in the chambers. My 308 Savage 10FCP had way more chatter marks than I expected, and my problematic 24" AR15 looked perfect!(?)
I found very few signs of fouling so I guess I was already adequately (or over) cleaning. Regardless, I really like it and I am happy to own one.
I’ve never heard of burnishing a bore with tungsten. I’d love to hear more about this method.
Boyd-
To answer your question-
Shilen Select Match, .223, 28" from NSS.
To answer your question-
Shilen Select Match, .223, 28" from NSS.
AckleymanII
Gold $$ Contributor
My Clean barrels shoot their best, I defer to Alex Wheeler's post. None of my custom barrels take more than a few shots to foul the barrel, some only one shot.
Often I have wondered if it is not the shooter that has to settle down, let the bags settle, focus on the flags, etc, and nothing to do with the barrel.
Often I have wondered if it is not the shooter that has to settle down, let the bags settle, focus on the flags, etc, and nothing to do with the barrel.
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