Hard carbon, solvents, and benefit of a bore scope

[BoydAllen]

A couple of additional things...powders vary a lot in their tendency to make hard carbon. I have been able to keep a 6PPC clean (inspected with a bore scope periodically) without any abrasive or polish, while using VV 133 (BBS, patches and bronze brushes). It is the cleanest powder that I have ever used, but of course, if you are competing, that is not the only factor in deciding what powder to use. My friend that solved his carbon problem was shooting quite well with LT32, but that powder will build up hard carbon, so the cleaning routine must be adjusted to compensate. For that kind of maintenance I use one of the black nylon brushes which are softer that the newest generation, filling it completely with IOSSO and do a lot of short stroking in the back third of the barrel, concentrating on the throat in particular. That is what solved my friends problem. When I say short stroke, I mean as short as possible (2"-3") working that cycle up and down the area that is being worked on. IOSSO will turn black in a perfectly clean barrel so you cannot go by that. No one that I know who shoots short range benchrest group, including several Hall of Fame members, and record holders, brushes one way, taking the brush off at the muzzle, and I have never seen any evidence of one scratching a bore. If I am going to use IOSSO, I do it after my regular solvent, patch, and brush cleaning.

 

[AckleymanII]

Flitz bore cleaner is really good, and I have only used it on patches. I have a small fortune invested in cleaning equipment and products, of which most are minimal at best. Guys say this or that they have excellent results with this or that with no back ground of case involved, # of grains of powder used, number of shots fired, Shot string length, etc.

Flitz, Issio, JB, are all mild abrasives, so care should be taken with the use of Bore guides with insert that centers rod in the bore....throats do wear from cleaning rod wear.

It would be very interesting to have some guys that shoot 338 Lapua cases and 50 BMG in competitions to chime in and learn their cleaning methods. I am sure that cleaning a 338 Lapua is very different than cleaning a 6 Dasher, 6 PPC or 223.

 

[Jeff A]

That is good to see! I have similar results.

I was referring to your using Iosso. I'm curious of your comparison between the two.

Thanks

I have used both with pretty equal results. I have settled on Iosso because JB with separate a bit if it sits too long. I use VFG pellets and mix a bit of Kroil with the Iosso and stoke the whole barrel up to 50 strokes. Cleaning is confirmed by a Hawkeye Bore Scope.

 

[Brians356]

Those barrel pics dont show that the carbon cannot be removed, it shows how completely ineffective JB really is... From my tests JB barely does anything. Total waste of time. It works after 200 strokes I suppose, but there are way better products.

I've got an old bottle of Corbin's compound. Has anyone evaluated its effectiveness compared to Iosso?
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[Brians356]

I would like to ask how you all are applying the JB or Iosso pastes. Are you using patches with JB or Iosso applied or brushes with these applied or a patch wrapped around a brush with these applied. Thanks

Rather than an old brush, I use a Parker-Hale jag (the cylinder with teeth style) and wrap a patch around it like a roll of paper towels. Size the jag, patch and # of turns around the jag to fit the bore as snugly as you desire. Then coat the cylinder with compound and short stroke. This provides much firmer and even support for the patch than a brush.
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[GAnderson]

I started on a 20Tac that I have known for awhile that it was going to need re-barreled real soon...it was still shooting "OK" but I knew it was going to die soon. I just purchased the Teslong bore scope and it came yesterday...I was horrified at the looks of the barrel. I had not really done a "proper" cleaning for awhile because as stated in the beginning, it was getting due for a re-barrel.
Ironically the carbon build up at the neck junction was very minor, so my normal cleaning must have been OK for that, but the throat/lead was a mess...black as could be. Tried some solvents, not much if any improvement, so I used the Iosso on a patch with a jag(don't have any nylon 20cal brushes)...I went to short stroking in the throat area and after the first go around it really showed improvement, repeated the process several more times and was amazed to finally see shiny metal. I will be interested to see if it shoots better now than what it has been...there is quite a bit of fire cracking extending on up in the barrel, but I got it "smoothed" out also just from a feel standpoint.
4-5 inches of snow last night and another several inches coming throughout this afternoon and evening, so I won't be able to shoot it for a day or two to find out.
I like the Teslong...amazed at what you get for $50. Also appreciate the responses to my question(s)...will be ordering some nylon brushes and more patches. Thanks

Gene

 

[GAnderson]

Nylon brush.

Iosso brushes if you can afford them. I'm testing regular nylon going up one size right now because they are cheaper. People keep telling me they don't work if you use the cheap ones, but with the Flitz they work fine.

Short stroking like a foot at a time.

Let us know how you think the regular nylon brushes work. Thanks

Gene

 

[urbanrifleman]

Let us know how you think the regular nylon brushes work. Thanks

Gene

I think the Boretech nylon 6mm work just fine as is...

The Tipton are a bit wimpy. Trying a Tipton 250 in the 6mm next. They are dirt cheap on Amazon. Like 3 for 6 bucks.

 

[GAnderson]

I think the Boretech nylon 6mm work just fine as is...

The Tipton are a bit wimpy. Trying a Tipton 250 in the 6mm next. They are dirt cheap on Amazon. Like 3 for 6 bucks.

About how many "sessions"/ barrels do you get per brush?

 

[urbanrifleman]

About how many "sessions"/ barrels do you get per brush?

Data unknown at this point

The Iosso might be worth the money simply for longevity, but I will continue to test!!

 

[Mark W]

No complaints here with Iosso Brushes. Not cheap, but they last a looong time!!

 

[golong]

how did you apply jb ??

I run 2 patches with Kroil down the barrel, then Kroil on a VFG pellet, then JB on pellets. I reapply both as needed.

Note that on my 'good' barrels I try to avoid any paste, but if I need it then I hit is early and just enough to remove the fowling that is causing the problem. The barrel in the photos has been burned up for a while and only gets used to fire form new or short (aka, overly sized) brass.

 

[rsmithsr50]

how tight and how long is vfg pellet ?

I run 2 patches with Kroil down the barrel, then Kroil on a VFG pellet, then JB on pellets. I reapply both as needed.

Note that on my 'good' barrels I try to avoid any paste, but if I need it then I hit is early and just enough to remove the fowling that is causing the problem. The barrel in the photos has been burned up for a while and only gets used to fire form new or short (aka, overly sized) brass.

 

[Coonman300]

I would like to ask how you all are applying the JB or Iosso pastes. Are you using patches with JB or Iosso applied or brushes with these applied or a patch wrapped around a brush with these applied. Thanks

I bought a special jag from Brownells that is threaded on the end to allow you to screw on some felt plugs that you apply the JB to and then scrub the barrel with. Sorry it posted sideways

 

[golong]

how tight and how long is vfg pellet ?

They are caliber specific. Smooth gliding, good contact fit but not "tight." They expand slightly once worked in the bore.

@Coonman300 's post has a photo of them. They have white (normal) and green which has a small bit of bronze brush in them with a tougher skin.

 

[rsmithsr50]

the reason I ask is that most people do not read the jb bore paste instructions.
"a tight fitting patch' WITHOUT THAT YOU ARE JUST WORKING YOUR ARM, not the bore.
there was a post once by a guy the counted 100 strokes and said no noticeable change...on his loose fitting mop.

They are caliber specific. Smooth gliding, good contact fit but not "tight." They expand slightly once worked in the bore.

@Coonman300 's post has a photo of them. They have white (normal) and green which has a small bit of bronze brush in them with a tougher skin.

 

[Dusty Stevens]

the reason I ask is that most people do not read the jb bore paste instructions.
"a tight fitting patch' WITHOUT THAT YOU ARE JUST WORKING YOUR ARM, not the bore.
there was a post once by a guy the counted 100 strokes and said no noticeable change...on his loose fitting mop.

Man it works like a champ and real fast on a patch. Cant imagine applying it any other way. Guess thats why it works for some but not all

 

[rsmithsr50]

Man it works like a champ and real fast on a patch. Cant imagine applying it any other way. Guess thats why it works for some but not all

what are you doing up so late ?

 

[Dusty Stevens]

Im on my first break. Worked 12hrs today then figured id chamber a barrel or two. Just got one dialed in im drinking a diet mt dew

 

[snakepit]

Anyone have any feedback on the use of Bore Tech Chameleon Gel on hard carbon?