Newbie here- Posted yesterday about getting rid of carbon build up. This is what I have observed/learned in the last day. I have a 6mm with a tough carbon ring...with the advice of fellow members I'm working on removing it...not an easy thing to do. I was able to remove all the carbon fouling in the barrel with JB Bore Paste, looks great except for the ring. Worked on a 30-06 yesterday and today that was neglected. Heavy carbon/copper fouling. Soaked over night with patch out and and then used Boretech Eliminator and carbon remover following their instructions. According to the patches it is clean. According to my new teslong bore scope there is still heavy carbon fouling. I did a JB treatment and removed a good bit of carbon. Slight carbon ring and still carbon streaks in barrel. Used the Boretech carbon remover again, soaked for 2 hours and patches are clean. Bore scope still shows a lot of carbon. Will work on it some more. My observation is this and I would like for the more experienced shooters to confirm or correct me. On both rifles I cleaned with different solvents for copper and carbon until the patches were clean. This involved doing many sequences with the solvents...including using brushes. My feeling is you have copper/carbon "fouling" resulting from a normal amount of shooting in a clean barrel. This fouling is removed without to much trouble with good solvents, brushing, patching,etc. Then you have my issue which is "baked in carbon" from having never properly cleaned a barrel that has been shot a lot. This baked on crap is not removed by the solvents. JB, Iosso, etc is needed. The eye opener on all this was my new borescope. Even after multiple sessions with normal solvents and the patches showing no sign of fouling, the scope showed a lot of carbon still in the barrel. I've read where many of you say the bore scope is the only way to know and I'm a believer. The teslong is the best $50 I've spent in a long time.
Hard carbon, solvents, and benefit of a bore scope
- Thread starter Coonman300
- Start date
Dusty Stevens
Shiner
You answered your own question. Everytime you used jb it got better. No shortcuts.
My personal thoughts on the ring, stop working it when the patch stops binding up. JB / IOSSO polish too much and then you get copper fowling like no tomorrow. These photos are from a barrel that now only gets used to expand brass. I took the carbon down as far as I did to get these photos to show others what happens regarding copper fowling - photo 3 is the point of the story.
Photos:
Photos:
- After JB (20 strokes, VFG green pellet)
- After JB and IOSSO (20 VFG white and 30 strokes blue brush)
- After above, 1 shot then cleaned with BBS, 10 shots total
- After JB (30 minutes VFG green pellet, slow strokes)
- After JB and a bronze brush - nothing more will come off.
BoydAllen
Gold $$ Contributor
In my experience with both, IOSSO cuts better than JB for hard carbon. Don't stroke the whole barrel just short stroke the affected area. The carbon is pulling the copper. You will also have alternating layers, so it is good to alternate IOSSO with a strong copper solvent in a case like yours, dissolving the copper as you uncover it. Working with a good bore guide, being careful with the rod, there is no virtue in making slow strokes with an abrasive. Laying down copper is exacerbated by bullet speed so there is a lot less concern about over polishing back in the throat than farther up the bore, and you can't over polish the steel when it is still covered with something else. Some years back, a friend was dealing with a very slight hard carbon ring at the back edge of the freebore, I had told him to use IOSSO but being hard headed he first tried JB on a patch scrubbing the problem area. It did not work, but with IOSSO he was successful. The whole thing would have been over and done with the first time if he had used the product and method that I suggested, but he was concerned about moving the throat forward. Many years later, a friend of both of us was dealing with a similar problem and he had been pussyfooting around because he had been listening to the first fellow. Luckily he had very carefully measured his throat. After failing with all other methods, he finally followed my advice, and the carbon was removed. After that he carefully remeasured his barrels throat, and it had not moved at all. It seems that my other friend had hamstrung his own cleaning procedures for years because of unfounded speculation. The second fellow who finally used the method that I advised did so with accurate barrel on a light varmint 6PPC that had developed some accuracy issues because of the carbon. After it was removed, the rifle's accuracy was restored. None of the problems that I have mentioned were even close to as bad as yours. One has a bore scope and the other lives close enough to use it. I have had one for years.
urbanrifleman
Site $$ Sponsor
Those barrel pics dont show that the carbon cannot be removed, it shows how completely ineffective JB really is... From my tests JB barely does anything. Total waste of time. It works after 200 strokes I suppose, but there are way better products.
urbanrifleman
Site $$ Sponsor
These bore scopes are going to change all the dialogues about cleaning. There are 1000s of posts on this forum of people making claims about how well their cleaning method works and how "their barrels don't foul" etc etc
Well the cat is out of the bag now...
I've tested these products for myself and I can say I have a pretty good idea what does what, and all I can say is the cheap borescope is going to change everything because people are going to be able to finally test for THEMSELVES and find out the vast majority of the information is misleading at best....
And of course, people will find they are shooting amazing with "dirty" (so called) barrels.
Well the cat is out of the bag now...
I've tested these products for myself and I can say I have a pretty good idea what does what, and all I can say is the cheap borescope is going to change everything because people are going to be able to finally test for THEMSELVES and find out the vast majority of the information is misleading at best....
And of course, people will find they are shooting amazing with "dirty" (so called) barrels.
It's been my experience that Iosso is the most effective carbon remover out there. Rifles that go away in the middle of an agg are often carboned in the throat, grabbing the Iosso is often times the quickest way to get it back. I know a bunch of guys that swear they would never touch a barrel with Iosso or JB bore paste but they never win so what's it worth? I've watched Tony Boyer use Iosso on his rifles after every yardage, that's about as good a testimony as there is.
urbanrifleman
Site $$ Sponsor
Flitz Bore Cleaner totally smokes JB. Not even close.
I have been told Iosso is even better than the new Flitz Bore Cleaner by a guy in here that I respect, but it would have to work in about 30 seconds to be better, because Flitz works in almost no time at all.
Because I have no life, I will probably get some just to test it, for giggles.
I have been told Iosso is even better than the new Flitz Bore Cleaner by a guy in here that I respect, but it would have to work in about 30 seconds to be better, because Flitz works in almost no time at all.
Because I have no life, I will probably get some just to test it, for giggles.
My opinion- best way is to use combination of bore cleaner like( shooters choice) or (butch's bore shine) with a new bronze bore brush, only one direction- breach to muzzle, unscrew and repeat. The bristles act to scratch the carbon off a little bit each pass. I only use this rarely for getting the carbon out and it works good. Does not hurt anything.
urbanrifleman
Site $$ Sponsor
https://drive.google.com/file/d/1Dg2GgLjC_S3bDtCccTfp0-e7tXD1-QVt/view?usp=drivesdk
My Rock Creek after my cleaning.
It has 1500 rounds and has stopped shooting real well. I used JB on it for years and when I got my scope it looked horrible.
urbanrifleman
Site $$ Sponsor
I rechambered that barrel to 6bra using my reamer by hand.
Took it to the range and fired 4 Tubb TMS bullets and proceeded to shoot 80 rounds fireforming from my bipod and squeeze bag. Ar Comp. 108 Bergers. This was my group after about 30 rounds. I shot many, many 1/4 in groups, but this was the smallest.
Took it to the range and fired 4 Tubb TMS bullets and proceeded to shoot 80 rounds fireforming from my bipod and squeeze bag. Ar Comp. 108 Bergers. This was my group after about 30 rounds. I shot many, many 1/4 in groups, but this was the smallest.
urbanrifleman
Site $$ Sponsor
Same target. These are bipod groups BTW.
urbanrifleman
Site $$ Sponsor
Lead of that barrel. 
Post break in. Its still firecracked a bit but its smooth as glass.
David's TMS bullets worked EXACTLY like he said they would. Btw.
Post break in. Its still firecracked a bit but its smooth as glass.David's TMS bullets worked EXACTLY like he said they would. Btw.
urbanrifleman
Site $$ Sponsor
Nylon brush.
Iosso brushes if you can afford them.
I'm testing regular nylon going up one size right now because they are cheaper. People keep telling me they don't work if you use the cheap ones, but with the Flitz they work fine.Short stroking like a foot at a time.
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