Lee collet die vs bushing die

[dolek]

even with neck sizing only eventualy you will have to size the body... consistency is what were after so you might as well size the body and bump the shoulder back every time

Why bump the shoulder back every time ? What about brass that is short until fired a time or two ? The LCD has many uses,in this case you can get consistent neck tension while forming your brass to the chamber.Until that brass is fully formed the only thing consistent is the neck tension .

 

[jimmymac]

I always like these threads. Opinions all over the place.

I've done a good bit of testing using the LCD and the results were interesting and positive. In my 6PPC BR gun, some of the best groups I've ever shot were accomplished using my custom bushing die without the bushing (essentially turning it in to a body die) and finishing the operation by neck sizing with the LCD. This was an eye opener. Accuracy was outstanding. If reloading in this fashion was practical to do during a match I'd give it some serious consideration, however adding reloading steps in between relays isn't the best idea when time is of the essence. Plus, I'm slow anyway...

When using the LCD, I always run the case in twice. After the first pass, I spin the case 1/8 turn and run it in again.

 

[gman47564]

Lee will make you a custom collet die.. i think around 70 bucks.

Why bump the shoulder back every time ? What about brass that is short until fired a time or two ? The LCD has many uses,in this case you can get consistent neck tension while forming your brass to the chamber.Until that brass is fully formed the only thing consistent is the neck tension .

daleboy the reason I size the body and bump the shoulder back every time is because I want the case exactly the same size everytime… (consistency) each time you fire that case it grows a little which increases case capacity.. even though its minimal its changing... then once it grows enough you have trouble chambering it you have to size the body back down to get it to chamber again... once you have to do that your changing case capacity again... in my opinion you want that case capacity the same each and every time...

 

[dolek]

Lee will make you a custom collet die.. i think around 70 bucks.




daleboy the reason I size the body and bump the shoulder back every time is because I want the case exactly the same size everytime… (consistency) each time you fire that case it grows a little which increases case capacity.. even though its minimal its changing... then once it grows enough you have trouble chambering it you have to size the body back down to get it to chamber again... once you have to do that your changing case capacity again... in my opinion you want that case capacity the same each and every time...

OK, whatever works for you . I find the size of the chamber makes for very consistent brass. More than one way to skin a cat.

 

[gman47564]

OK, whatever works for you . I find the size of the chamber makes for very consistent brass. More than one way to skin a cat.

Thats right..

 

[Bill K]

What are the advantages of each ? Can you bump the shoulder back with a bushing die while sizing the neck at the same time ?

Yes, that is what and how it works.

 

[Texas10]

Thanks for the help. I was under the impression that the Lee Collet Die gave the least run out. That is why I am neck sizing.

I get almost no runout with the Lee Collet Die. In my 223 I stopped FL sizing and only neck size. Cases don't grow, I don't have to trim, they chamber fine, but I do anneal occasionally.

I am not shooting competitively, so if a round does not chamber smoothly once in a while, it's not the end of the world. Those who do compete demand consistent chambering ALWAYS, so FL sizing is the norm.

 

[VaniB]

Lee will make you a custom collet die.. i think around 70 bucks.


.

Lee will NOT make all cartridge varieties. They will turn down the 22PPC and 221 Fireball even though it was produced as a standard at one time. I'm sure there are others cartridges they refuse to make that I am not aware of. I believe most of the refusals relate to shorter cartridges. (dunno why they do the 22 hornet but not a fireball) This has been brought up on numerous threads. One member here recites the story that he was told "Yes" on the phone and was then sent a refund check when he called weeks later to ask where his order was. If I was ordering from them on the phone, I would mention this to quiz that person and make sure they are not just "Yes" clerks working there who don't know the particulars.

 

[gman47564]

Yeah i dunno. The told me they could make a custom collet die in whatever i wanted. To send them 3 fired cases and money and they would send the die in 8 to 10 weeks.. but i was talking to a lady that answered the phone so maybe she doesnt know..

 

[rebs]

what brand of bushing die do you recommend to bum the shoulder and size the neck at the same time ?

 

[JimSC]

I did a test last year comparing runout sizing using a two step method with a Redding body die followed by a Lee Collet against sizing in one step and sizing with a Redding S Bushing die with the expander removed. I sized twenty five .260 Remington cases with each method and found no significant differences between the two methods. Both methods gave me very acceptable results with little runout, I will post the spreadsheet if I find it

 

[Martin52]

When using the LCD, I always run the case in twice. After the first pass, I spin the case 1/8 turn and run it in again.

I spin the case when I'm using my FLS die. But with the LCD the mandrel may not always re-enter a second time, the neck by then has already been sized down against the mandrel on the first pass. Doesn't seem to matter, I still get very low r/out with the LCD on a single pass.

 

[Dgd6mm]

Lee recommends to rotate the case and collet size a second time. I do not no if rotating and sizing twice is better than not, it's just a habit that I've always done. The results down range are as good as full length sizing. I have a good process in my reloading regiment with notes to boot. I've never had a case that wouldn't chamber because it went past it's time to be full length sized.

 

[jimmymac]

I spin the case when I'm using my FLS die. But with the LCD the mandrel may not always re-enter a second time, the neck by then has already been sized down against the mandrel on the first pass. Doesn't seem to matter, I still get very low r/out with the LCD on a single pass.

I've had no issues. IIRC, Lee suggest's in their documentation to spin the case.

 

[fyrewall]

I use the Redding boddy dies with the Lee collet dies. For each, I go real slow, thinking time like up to one minute will effect a more permanent change in brass deformation. My guess is that even a short period of time will overcome the tendency of the brass to spring back. So … compress (15 secs) … withdraw & rotate … compress(15 secs) … withdraw & rotate ...compress(15 secs) ...remove brass, cycle completed.

I am now looking for a collet die for my 6.5-06. I successfully modified a .260 Rem collet die for 6.5X47 Lapua. I shortened the bottom of the collet and mandrel. I use a modified decap pin in my Lee decap die to fit the sub diameter 6.5X47 L flash hole. I does not look like such a big deal for Lee to make some mods to a .25-06 collet die for 6.5-06 use.

I like my cases to chamber real quick & easy for that fast 2nd shot with minimum rifle jiggling so I F/L resize every round.

VaniB's setup is a study of neatness & order.

 

[Uncle Ed]

The reason so many reloaders use the Lee collet die is because it produces less neck runout than a bushing die in off the shelf factory chambers. I myself prefer sizing the case once with a Forster full length die with very little to no neck runout. If you think your Forster die is over working the case neck then have the neck honed by Forster.

 

[Straightshooter1]

A collet die will squeeze any forming donut away to your neck's thickness as annealed brass tends to be rather pliable at the pressures a collet die will apply.

 

[Texas10]

Lee recommends to rotate the case and collet size a second time. I do not no if rotating and sizing twice is better than not, it's just a habit that I've always done. The results down range are as good as full length sizing. I have a good process in my reloading regiment with notes to boot. I've never had a case that wouldn't chamber because it went past it's time to be full length sized.

Exactly my experience. I partially size on first stroke, I can feel the collet working the brass, then rotate 90 degrees and give it a full stroke. The brass springs back and I get very good consistency in neck tension. I put 4 into a 0.09 group at 100 yds last week with a good amount of wind, so it must be working.

 

[fyrewall]

Not to dwell on this subject but brass spring back contributes to inconsistency.

 

[Texas10]

Not to dwell on this subject but brass spring back contributes to inconsistency.

I've read that, but my experience with regard to my 223 target loads is quite different. I have found very good consistency by letting the brass work harden in the neck. Then when I neck size, it springs back fairly consistently. I have measured the necks right after sizing and they are within .0005 ( half a thou) of loaded, yet there is a fair amount of neck tension during bullet seating.

I don't pretend to understand all the metalurgic reasons, it just works. I do occasionally get bolt clicks as the brass nears a couple dozen cycles, indicating the brass has fully expanded to the chamber and doesn't spring back upon firing. If I can't stop the bolt click by FL sizing, I just toss the batch, and start over.