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Should F-class shooters be required to pull targets?

Is shooting Prone or F-Class meant to be a "Shooting Sport" or an "Endurance Contest?"

There are some shooting competitions that are a mix of the two such as Pentathlon. F-Class is a precision shooting competition. Pulling targets is a 'necessary' side effect when there is no one else to do it, but it plays a big role based on the shooters age and fitness, not to mention the quality of the puller they happen to have that match. Paid pullers are fine as long as the puller is not pulling and scoring for the person paying them.

Electronic Targets are the way to go.
 
I think it has been noted in the past that in general participants like e-targets, and competitors do not. It's a subtle distinction and I realize that putting it that way is rather inelegant. I know there are exceptions to that statement but from what I've heard and read it is the case.

FWIW I realize that in the not to distant future we'll probably be shooting all of our matches on e-targets, and at that point I'll have to decide whether or not I wish to continue playing this game. (and for the record I am shooting as a Sr. starting next yr)
 
F-class evolved from Full Bore shooting you know Leather Jackets prone Iron sights no magnification. So when you get to your 60s-70s and just cant do that sort of thing or your eyes are just not up to the job anymore should you have to leave the shooting sport altogether. No take off the jacket put your rifle on a rest and use a scope. Its nearly the same sport you where doing since you were a kid. Everything that can be done to keep people in the sport should be done. In most parts of the world numbers are declining to the point some can see the end of Target Rifle not far down the track and F class not far behind it. Ranges getting closed due to environment factors pressure from urban development. When a range doesn't have enough people using it, it is in trouble once closed its gone forever. I dont feel like driving a 1000km out into the desert to shoot.
 
F-Class evolved from Fullbore so that older shooters could still be competitive behind a rifle, not so that they wouldn't have to pull targets. The creation of F-Class did not force anyone Shooting Fullbore to change their sport or rules by a single iota.

If an inability of a very small number of shooters to physically pull targets is the primary motivation behind e-targets, simply create yet another offshoot discipline and call it E-class. Then you can make whatever changes you want without affecting the parent discipline, just like F-Class did originally.

I'm with Wade on this one. I have no desire to shoot on e-targets. So you can either lose participants that do not have the physical ability (or the desire) to pull paper targets, or you can lose participants that think shooting on e-targets is nothing but a solution to a problem that never existed in the first place.
 
Im sure its been mentioned plenty of times in the last 10 pages but there are plenty of folks who dont shoot f class just because of target pulling and would actually go to matches if there were more accurate and reliable e-targets. Same goes for long range benchrest where you get disqualified for a penalty or cant shoot sighter shots when you know you need to to do your best. Ranges that hold short range benchrest matches have a target crew as a planned part of the match. Good thing we get to choose what we do and have these first world problems
 
XTR said:
I think it has been noted in the past that in general participants like e-targets, and competitors do not. It's a subtle distinction and I realize that putting it that way is rather inelegant. I know there are exceptions to that statement but from what I've heard and read it is the case.

FWIW I realize that in the not to distant future we'll probably be shooting all of our matches on e-targets, and at that point I'll have to decide whether or not I wish to continue playing this game. (and for the record I am shooting as a Sr. starting next yr)
Click to expand...
My thoughts are similar. Most club level shooters who are just shooting for fun prefer the convenience of E targets and don't mind their limitations, while the more ambitious or competitive shooters often prefer manual targets, especially for important competitions.
 
Seems like a separate category for records would satisfy the concerns of most 'competitors'.

It's been my experience that having some fun is what keeps most people shooting these disciplines coming back for more. With etargets, the competition is still there, and the results are no more dubious than they are with manual targets - less so, in my opinion.
 
Dusty Stevens said:
Im sure its been mentioned plenty of times in the last 10 pages but there are plenty of folks who dont shoot f class just because of target pulling and would actually go to matches if there were more accurate and reliable e-targets. Same goes for long range benchrest where you get disqualified for a penalty or cant shoot sighter shots when you know you need to to do your best. Ranges that hold short range benchrest matches have a target crew as a planned part of the match. Good thing we get to choose what we do and have these first world problems
Click to expand...

Exactly right. In addition, at some ranges, pulling targets is far easier than at others. Weather issues are a further influence. In the South, we have shooters heat stroke out at times on the line and in the pits. No respite during the day when they have to either shoot, score or pull without any cover available at some ranges. Some ranges, the targets are so hard to pull that many shooters simply avoid those ranges for matches now.

All anyone has to do is look around at a match and see both the average age of the shooters as well as the mix of Prone versus F-Class. Prone is dying a slow but increasing death. Even the military it evolves from is changing. No military sniper depends on open sights and a sling today, and common soldiers are no longer trained for long distance shooting. F-Class has brought life back to long range competition and E-Targets is having a similar effect. We should run with it to encourage more competition shooters rather than disparage it.
 
M99 said:
All anyone has to do is look around at a match and see both the average age of the shooters as well as the mix of Prone versus F-Class. Prone is dying a slow but increasing death. Even the military it evolves from is changing. No military sniper depends on open sights and a sling today, and common soldiers are no longer trained for long distance shooting. F-Class has brought life back to long range competition and E-Targets is having a similar effect. We should run with it to encourage more competition shooters rather than disparage it.
Click to expand...

Well said and very true. The same thing is happening in Aussie.
 
I have shot and pulled targets on 5 different ranges and next week will be at Raton for #6. I enjoy the comradery of the pits and can still handle the job physically. That said I now prefer e-targets for the extra feed back they give and that they allow new ranges for mid and long range to get started for less money than building pits. That may be the salvation of our sport.
 
In the end its all about shooting...I for one just wanna shoot. Ill go to any Match anywhere I can, as long
as I can shoot. Amen.
 
I'm considering the Nationals in Arizona next year. I have never shot an f class comp at this level. I haven't done pit duties in at least 3 years. I'm concerned about being rusty and screwing up. I did like marking targets and working in the pit. I have come use to the electronic targets and like them. I believe it's the new way and I see more shooters showing up.
 
With 2 surgically repaired knees, pulling targets (same day as shooting) would eliminate me from even competing. Walking across the parking lot at work is a challenge.
 
At Bayou Rifles, under the leadership of Don Diffey we went full e-targets. I was inflicted with match director duties for Long Range some months back and we have been working hard to make the whole experience as safe, pleasant and challenging as possible. Where we used to get about 10-12 shooters in the height of summer (July and August,) we had between 32 and 34 shooters each time this summer because of etargets. We can start at 8:00AM and have 3 matches with 3 relays completed before noon and I don't have to worry about people passing out of heat exhaustion in the pits.

We learned a great deal on how to run matches with this technology and we have it down to defined systems and procedures now and they work really well. They are much more reliable than pullers. What I find to be the biggest change now is how quiet it is on the line. All we hear is Bang, score and round count. We don't even have radios anymore. You can shoot as slowly as you want and the target will not fall asleep on you. It's been a long road and we worked on it, but they are really slick now.

It's also nice to get a velocity at the target for every shot. That's been an eye opener.

And yes, we do use the 7 second delay thing.
 
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