Nirvana: Lilja 457 and Tenex lot testing

[garandman]

So I re-barrelled the CZ 457 with a Lilja 16" thraeded, and have been doing ammo lot testing. Recently discovering I've been setting parallax adjustment wrong, I finally think I'm shooting near the rifles potential (at 50y)

I need to clean up a coupla lazy shots but I think I've got a good practice routine for set up, breathing control and follow thru. Along with dealing with eye "floaters" ... little fuzzy squiggly lines that kinda float around the eyeball (i.e. old man eyes)

I also got a working theory about ammo lot testing.... that its not the specific lot so much as it is the velocity achieved. You can call the manufacturer on Tenex and give them your lot # and they'll tell you the claimed velocity. Some Magneto speed testing to follow, just to verify.

This looks to be the right "arrow" ... the "indian" needs a little work.

 

[Danoh]

Nice!

 

[dc.fireman]

You can also visit the Eley website, input your lot number, and if it was produced within the last two years, they'll have the group test from their initial manufacturers test from that particular lot.

 

[ELR Researcher]

You can also visit the Eley website, input your lot number, and if it was produced within the last two years, they'll have the group test from their initial manufacturers test from that particular lot.

Eley Analyzer URL - http://www.myeley.com/lot-analyser

 

[natdscott]

Photos are broken

 

[Tim s]

You’re theory is wrong, good barrels and proper lot selection may include a pretty good spread of velocity and since the posted fps has always been regarding only their test barrels it might be why it isnot even posted on current boxes.
My barrels will shoot proper lots from the low 1050’s to 1070’s.....they are far from unique.

 

[Hi-NV Shooter]

Unless you have a unique barrel were it likes only a certain speed to shoot well (which actually is not a good thing) Tim is right , it matters only what the results look like, speed is not important.

Lee

 

[garandman]

My barrel likes Tenex 1060 ish fps.

It doesnt like anything else.

Your barrel have ZERO relevance to mine.

Telling me Im wrong about my barrel... that Ive shot... and you havent.

Funny stuff.

 

[garandman]

Repeatable result, at 50yds

:

 

[Hi-NV Shooter]

Repeatable result, at 50yds

View attachment 1125277 :

But there is only 1- group you are showing?

My barrel likes Tenex 1060 ish fps.

It doesnt like anything else.

Your barrels have ZERO relevance to mine.

Telling me Im wrong about my barrel... that Ive shot... and you havent.

Funny stuff.

Actually, what will be more funny is when you can't find any 1060ish ammo that will shoot

Lee

 

[garandman]

See pic up top. Ive got numerous 6- 5 shot group targets showing one ragged hole, about 0.30"

And Im good with plenny of ammo. Thanx.

Besides... Eley isnt gonna stop producing 1060 ish Tenex ammo.

Lol

 

[Hi-NV Shooter]

Repeatable result, at 50yds

View attachment 1125277 :

Want repeatable
here 10-shot groups at 50 -yards same barrel 20 shot group at 50-yards different speed ammo $10.00 a box CX

 

[garandman]

But if you want to keep telling me about my gun which you've never even touched. ... please go ahead. Very entertaining.

 

[Hi-NV Shooter]

But if you want to keep telling me about my gun which you've never even touched. ... please go ahead. Very entertaining.

I will leave it at this, What I am trying to say is don't overlook other speeds, test, test, and test. what you find shoots good now, may not do so again. been there and done that.

Lee

 

[natdscott]

Nobody is persecuting here, and nobody has said your rifle or ammo isn’t working well, and nobody had insulted your wife or kicked your dog or smacked your kid, so why are you all getting shitty with each other?

And before y’all go on about how you aren’t, and you were just joking or wtf ever...

...no you weren’t. You were being assholes because this is the internet, and you can.

That’s still not a valid reason to treat each other like shit.

 

[garandman]

I will leave it at this, What I am trying to say is don't overlook other speeds, test, test, and test. what you find shoots good now, may not do so again. been there and done that.

Lee

Ammo speeds *** IS *** my whole point in finding accuracy in 22rf.

The ENTIRE REASON companies like Eley do different ammo lots is to manufacture ammos with different speeds and different OALs.

Rimfire is NOT the big mystery Some people make it out to be. It operates under the same principles as center fire ammo.. .. that accuracy in rim fire comes from both ammo speed and over all length of the cartridge.

Different lots of Rim fire ammo come with different powder charges to produce different ammo speeds… that will shoot differently in different barrels with different accuracies. Same as centerfire.

And as the guy at Lilja told me… accuracy in rim fire also comes from the overall cartridge length. Now we can't change that because we don't hand load 22 rim fire. How you manage cartridge length in 22 rim fire is through head space… Lilja uses different spacers btwn the receiver and the barrel to tweak the head space. You test 22 rim fire to find out what manufactured cartridge length and powder charge works best with the head space you have set in the gun. This is not my personal opinion. This is what Carson Lilja, the manufacturer of one of the most accurate barrels in the world, told me about how you find accuracy from a 22 rim fire. People are free to choose to disagree and disbelieve him if they want to. I choose to take what he said as highly likely. I tested his explanation, and it worked... for me.

And yes… of course test test test test test test test test. There is no end to testing 22 rim fire ammo. You never "arrive". When you find a lot that shoots well in your gun, you buy a krapp load of it. This is what the guy at Killough just told me... as have numerous other industry experts and competetive shooters. All are free to disagree with them if they want.

So... I agree with your post here. I have tried about 4 or 5 different ammo speeds in my barrel and found the one that works the best. And by "the best " I mean " is more accurate by about 0.1".

 

[garandman]

Specifically I've tried numerous different ammo speeds.

1080 was about the worst Tenex I tested.

1068 was decent.

I have tried 3 different lots of 1059 to 1060 and all shot well.. . one ragged hole under 0.35"... as low as a repeatable 0.26- 0 27"

This leads me to believe it is velocity far more than It is magic that determines rim fire accuracy.

 

[garandman]

My approach to these discussions is to tell people what is happening with my particular gun… and that what is happening in my gun may have no relevance bearing or indication at all for what will happen in their gun... but it may, so they need to do their own testing.

It is immense over reach for one shooter to insist that what is happening in their gun is universal to every gun. It just aint so. It *might* be the same for other shooters / guns. But it might not.

 

[Hi-NV Shooter]

Ammo speeds *** IS *** my whole point in finding accuracy in 22rf.

The ENTIRE REASON companies like Eley do different ammo lots is to manufacture ammos with different speeds and different OALs.

Rimfire is NOT the big mystery Some people make it out to be. It operates under the same principles as center fire ammo.. .. that accuracy in rim fire comes from both ammo speed and over all length of the cartridge.

Different lots of Rim fire ammo come with different powder charges to produce different ammo speeds… that will shoot differently in different barrels with different accuracies. Same as centerfire.

And as the guy at Lilja told me… accuracy in rim fire also comes from the overall cartridge length. Now we can't change that because we don't hand load 22 rim fire. How you manage cartridge length in 22 rim fire is through head space… Lilja uses different spacers btwn the receiver and the barrel to tweak the head space. You test 22 rim fire to find out what manufactured cartridge length and powder charge works best with the head space you have set in the gun. This is not my personal opinion. This is what Carson Lilja, the manufacturer of one of the most accurate barrels in the world, told me about how you find accuracy from a 22 rim fire. People are free to choose to disagree and disbelieve him if they want to. I choose to take what he said as highly likely. I tested his explanation, and it worked... for me.

And yes… of course test test test test test test test test. There is no end to testing 22 rim fire ammo. You never "arrive". When you find a lot that shoots well in your gun, you buy a krapp load of it. This is what the guy at Killough just told me... as have numerous other industry experts and competetive shooters. All are free to disagree with them if they want.

So... I agree with your post here. I have tried about 4 or 5 different ammo speeds in my barrel and found the one that works the best. And by "the best " I mean " is more accurate by about 0.1".

I think you may have misunderstood what Lilja meant by OAL effecting accuracy, at least I hope that wasn't what they meant. OAL will affect engraving depth , once the rim face contacts the breech face of the barrel, headspace can not change the chamber depth thus headspace will not alter the OAL or depth of the chamber and affect engraving. OAL is as it comes from the maker of the ammo and with .22lr it can vary a lot

Lee

 

[Hoodoo]

I think you may have misunderstood what Lilja meant by OAL effecting accuracy, at least I hope that wasn't what they meant. OAL will affect engraving depth , once the rim face contacts the breech face of the barrel, headspace can not change the chamber depth thus headspace will not alter the OAL or depth of the chamber and affect engraving. OAL is as it comes from the maker of the ammo and with .22lr it can vary a lot

Lee

So based on your theory, a rifle set with a headspace of .050" and one set with a headspace of .043" are going to engrave the same? (Yes, I realize those are extreme examples, but that's the point isn't it?)

Headspace in 22RF is the most finicky change in accuracy you can get. .043" might shoot horrible in your rifle, take .001" shim out and adjust to .042" and it might shoot dimes. OAL, engraving, etc will always have affects on accuracy in 22RF.