Wilson seater bullet seating method

[JFASH]

Are you checking runout after expanding?

Yes, its the same. It dosent change.

 

[JFASH]

Im going to try these suggestions tonight. I'll keep you posted on my progress.
Thanks
Joe

 

[JFASH]

Another question i have is how hard do you guys tighten the set screw that pushes against the seater stem? The instructions say not to over tighten and i experimented with wrapping a bit of teflon tape on the threads, that seems to center the stem perfectly. I dont know but i would think that the stem should "float". This way it would self center itself.

 

[Dusty Stevens]

Another question i have is how hard do you guys tighten the set screw that pushes against the seater stem? The instructions say not to over tighten and i experimented with wrapping a bit of teflon tape on the threads, that seems to center the stem perfectly. I dont know but i would think that the stem should "float". This way it would self center itself.

The stem will be in the center of the reamed hole whether it has a top thats drilled so far off center it looks like a cam lobe or not even a top on it

 

[Sixgun]

I'm having a problem trying to get concentric rounds with my seater. Sometimes i'm getting .001 runout, then the next round could be out as much as .006... very frustrating. My question is how are you guys feeding the bullet into the case mouth? Light pressure or more of a firm push before you pull the handle and seat. Here is my method using lapua brass, 6.5 creedmoor (I don't turn the necks).
1. Clean brass with s/s media.
2. Anneal with amp.
3. Size with a l.e. Wilson full size bushing die.
4. lightly chamfer necks
5. Prime then seat the bullets ( i'm not using anything in the necks)

I seat the bullets with a KM arbor press with the force pack and the seating force is very consistent, I just can't seem to get consistent bullet runout. When I size the cases, the case runout is .0005. Any help would be appreciated.
Thanks
Joe

My process is exactly this way with exactly the same equipment. When seating I rotate 180 degrees. For the seating to be corrected the bullet must have movement; so what I do is back off my target depth 4 or .005, rotate, finish seating. I used to go 180 four times but found this gives the same results. Most are about .0015 I do get some in the +.003 range never .006 though.

 

[Sixgun]

Another question i have is how hard do you guys tighten the set screw that pushes against the seater stem? The instructions say not to over tighten and i experimented with wrapping a bit of teflon tape on the threads, that seems to center the stem perfectly. I dont know but i would think that the stem should "float". This way it would self center itself.

Wow! I was just gonna mention this right before seeing this post. I was just gonna say since the set screw has a rubber bumper on it that it doesn't need to be super tight. You know..I like that idea of the teflon tape. As far as float goes...since the error can only be in one direction..just rotate 180.

 

[Sixgun]

FWIW..I check bullet run out at the end of the bearing surface..not the ogive.

 

[Sixgun]

I have my seating die body mark with a straight line and the stem plunger mark with two opposing lines. I "release" the case before final seating.

 

[JFASH]

My process is exactly this way with exactly the same equipment. When seating I rotate 180 degrees. For the seating to be corrected the bullet must have movement; so what I do is back off my target depth 4 or .005, rotate, finish seating. I used to go 180 four times but found this gives the same results. Most are about .0015 I do get some in the +.003 range never .006 though.

I just started from scratch tonight and the most runout i got was .004. Little improvement. Ill have to fire all of the rounds this weekend and start over. I measure my loaded runout to the ogive of the bullet. Ill try your method. Do you rotate 180 just once?

 

[JFASH]

I have the same dis and seater
I occasionally check my F/L to ensure the bushing is not overly tight.
I do not anneal nor feel the need to do so.
I will index the seater very close to my CBTO measurement to ensure the seater doesn’t bottom out.
I have not experienced the run out you’ve described using Wilson Dies however if I had I certainly would re trace my steps setting up.

I have used other Dies that have produced run out to .005 with no effect on accuracy.
J

When you place the bullet on the case mouth, are you trying to center the bullet as straight as possible before you seat?
Thanks

 

[chop house]

Ill have to fire all of the rounds this weekend and start over.

that may not be all bad. some wise people on here said a piece of brass is never as straight as when it comes out of the chamber. they also said, basically, that dies can not straighten a crooked neck.

i have fought with runout issues on and off on several calibers . just picked up a used honed (0.266) forster 6mm br die from a member here and on a no turn neck chamber it makes remarkably straight cartridges when coupled with the wilson inline. before that my neck tension was too high, the seater drift was distorting the bullet jacket, and things were a mess overall.

 

[group therapy]

maybe a friend has a resizing die and seater you could borrow. easy check if so

 

[JFrank]

When you place the bullet on the case mouth, are you trying to center the bullet as straight as possible before you seat?
Thanks

Not really, I just hold it steady and place the seater over the bullet until my fingers get in the way then transfer to the outside of the seater, slide the whole Shabang in the press.
I’m not an expert by any means but I suspect any runout is introduced during sizing perhaps due to over annealing or the bushing is held to tightly in the F/L die, something along those lines.
Hope ya figure it out
J

 

[Straightshooter1]

I just started from scratch tonight and the most runout i got was .004. Little improvement. Ill have to fire all of the rounds this weekend and start over. I measure my loaded runout to the ogive of the bullet. Ill try your method. Do you rotate 180 just once?

Reading through this thread, I didn't see if you confirmed that you were shaving your case necks . . .???

I improved my run out by doing so. When I first started shaving I'd remove material until about 20% was not quite touched and I didn't see much improvement in my run out with that. So I decided to shave until the whole neck was to a uniform thickness without taking off any more than I had to. That made a definite difference in the run out I was getting. And when one thinks about it, it stands to reason that it should when the whole neck is uniform in thickness.

Another item that caught my attention that I corrected was when I chamfered after trimming, I notice my chamfering was not concentric (not even all the way around the rim of the neck). When the chamfer was uniform, I notice I got noticeably less run out . . . not a big difference, but "noticeably".

One last thing that stood out to me as I tried various seating dies trying to get the least run out . . . when I seated to saami spec length (I'm loading for .308), which is at 2.80 COAL my run outs were good. My gun has a very long throat and when I reach out to the lands, which could be like .080 longer, the run out deteriorated significantly (more so with some dies than others). This leads me to believe the best way to get low run out consistently, is having a custom die done that matches your chamber.

The the run out of the neck is important too, as some have mentioned, but that's usually not a problem with a fired case . . . UNLESS one is pulling a expansion ball through the neck when resizing. I don't do that any more because of that.

Since my Wilson seater seems to have more "slop" than I feel it should, I'm going to call them and maybe see what they do.

PS: I remember a wise and very experience person saying that sometimes one just has to try more than one die, even from the same manufacturer, to find one that will really work well.

 

[expiper]

OP,,,is the bushing floating in your resize die,,,??...Roger

 

[dkhunt14]

Cleaning brass with stainless steel media raises force needed to seat bullets. The more tension on the bullet when seated, the more runout shows up, especially on soft brass. Matt

 

[Sixgun]

I just started from scratch tonight and the most runout i got was .004. Little improvement. Ill have to fire all of the rounds this weekend and start over. I measure my loaded runout to the ogive of the bullet. Ill try your method. Do you rotate 180 just once?

Yes just one time.

 

[mike06]

One thing I would like to know about the runout could powder build up in the case neck be causing the runout. Then that would bring up the question of brushing the inside of the neck or not. Some say leave the powder there for bullet lube some say brush it clean. I sonic clean then resize and tumble to polish my brass. I also use the Wilson micrometer seater die.

 

[JFASH]

OP,,,is the bushing floating in your resize die,,,??...Roger

Yes sir, it is.

 

[JFASH]

Reading through this thread, I didn't see if you confirmed that you were shaving your case necks . . .???

I improved my run out by doing so. When I first started shaving I'd remove material until about 20% was not quite touched and I didn't see much improvement in my run out with that. So I decided to shave until the whole neck was to a uniform thickness without taking off any more than I had to. That made a definite difference in the run out I was getting. And when one thinks about it, it stands to reason that it should when the whole neck is uniform in thickness.

Another item that caught my attention that I corrected was when I chamfered after trimming, I notice my chamfering was not concentric (not even all the way around the rim of the neck). When the chamfer was uniform, I notice I got noticeably less run out . . . not a big difference, but "noticeably".

One last thing that stood out to me as I tried various seating dies trying to get the least run out . . . when I seated to saami spec length (I'm loading for .308), which is at 2.80 COAL my run outs were good. My gun has a very long throat and when I reach out to the lands, which could be like .080 longer, the run out deteriorated significantly (more so with some dies than others). This leads me to believe the best way to get low run out consistently, is having a custom die done that matches your chamber.

The the run out of the neck is important too, as some have mentioned, but that's usually not a problem with a fired case . . . UNLESS one is pulling a expansion ball through the neck when resizing. I don't do that any more because of that.

Since my Wilson seater seems to have more "slop" than I feel it should, I'm going to call them and maybe see what they do.

PS: I remember a wise and very experience person saying that sometimes one just has to try more than one die, even from the same manufacturer, to find one that will really work well.

Reading through this thread, I didn't see if you confirmed that you were shaving your case necks . . .???

I improved my run out by doing so. When I first started shaving I'd remove material until about 20% was not quite touched and I didn't see much improvement in my run out with that. So I decided to shave until the whole neck was to a uniform thickness without taking off any more than I had to. That made a definite difference in the run out I was getting. And when one thinks about it, it stands to reason that it should when the whole neck is uniform in thickness.

Another item that caught my attention that I corrected was when I chamfered after trimming, I notice my chamfering was not concentric (not even all the way around the rim of the neck). When the chamfer was uniform, I notice I got noticeably less run out . . . not a big difference, but "noticeably".

One last thing that stood out to me as I tried various seating dies trying to get the least run out . . . when I seated to saami spec length (I'm loading for .308), which is at 2.80 COAL my run outs were good. My gun has a very long throat and when I reach out to the lands, which could be like .080 longer, the run out deteriorated significantly (more so with some dies than others). This leads me to believe the best way to get low run out consistently, is having a custom die done that matches your chamber.

The the run out of the neck is important too, as some have mentioned, but that's usually not a problem with a fired case . . . UNLESS one is pulling a expansion ball through the neck when resizing. I don't do that any more because of that.

Since my Wilson seater seems to have more "slop" than I feel it should, I'm going to call them and maybe see what they do.

PS: I remember a wise and very experience person saying that sometimes one just has to try more than one die, even from the same manufacturer, to find one that will really work well.

What kind of brass and what is your finished thickness after you neck turned?