Wilson seater bullet seating method

[JFASH]

One thing I would like to know about the runout could powder build up in the case neck be causing the runout. Then that would bring up the question of brushing the inside of the neck or not. Some say leave the powder there for bullet lube some say brush it clean. I sonic clean then resize and tumble to polish my brass. I also use the Wilson micrometer seater die.

The inside of my necks are clean, no carbon at all.

 

[JFASH]

Cleaning brass with stainless steel media raises force needed to seat bullets. The more tension on the bullet when seated, the more runout shows up, especially on soft brass. Matt

I experimented with leaving carbon in the neck, the runout was more consistant. The seating force was comparable though, that's why i tumble the brass; plus the brass is perfect and leaves my dies pristine. I think the neck time i reload these shells, ill just wipe them down and leave the carbon in the necks and restart my process. Do you leave the carbon in the necks?

 

[mike06]

I experimented with leaving carbon in the neck, the runout was more consistant. The seating force was comparable though, that's why i tumble the brass; plus the brass is perfect and leaves my dies pristine. I think the neck time i reload these shells, ill just wipe them down and leave the carbon in the necks and restart my process. Do you leave the carbon in the necks?

Yes I still have some but it is not even around the entire inside of the neck. I always use the redding dry graphite media before powder charge and seating. Also I do not use a expander with my FL bushing die.

 

[JFASH]

Cleaning brass with stainless steel media raises force needed to seat bullets. The more tension on the bullet when seated, the more runout shows up, especially on soft brass. Matt

I tried leaving carbon in the necks and it was more consistant. Are you leaving carbon in the necks?
Thanks
Joe

 

[JFrank]

I experimented with leaving carbon in the neck, the runout was more consistant. The seating force was comparable though, that's why i tumble the brass; plus the brass is perfect and leaves my dies pristine. I think the neck time i reload these shells, ill just wipe them down and leave the carbon in the necks and restart my process. Do you leave the carbon in the necks?

I’m not Matt,
However I do not tumble brass
I do lightly brush the neck out to remove Klingon’s , if seating feels a bit sticky I’ll make another pass on the spinning brush then all is good.
J

 

[JFASH]

I’m not Matt,
However I do not tumble brass
I do lightly brush the neck out to remove Klingon’s , if seating feels a bit sticky I’ll make another pass on the spinning brush then all is good.
J

How do you prep your cases? Do you just wipe the outside, then brush the necks and load?

 

[JFrank]

Pretty much

 

[mikeeg02]

Have you marked the ones with more run out and shot them and found they werent in the group?

Do you have any pictures of your targets?

 

[Nick_Mansfield]

I didn’t read all the responses but I tend to run brass half way up in sizing die then rotate 90 or so degrees and then run all the way up...but I also don’t check for run out anymore either...

 

[dkhunt14]

I experimented with leaving carbon in the neck, the runout was more consistant. The seating force was comparable though, that's why i tumble the brass; plus the brass is perfect and leaves my dies pristine. I think the neck time i reload these shells, ill just wipe them down and leave the carbon in the necks and restart my process. Do you leave the carbon in the necks?

I use graphite in the necks. Matt

 

[JFrank]

I use graphite in the necks. Matt

Matt
I thought that was our little secret??

J

 

[JFASH]

I use graphite in the necks. Matt

So you tumble your brass in stainless steel media?

 

[JFASH]

I just reloaded 40 cases tonight and i tried something different. I didn't wet tumble the brass this time, instead i wiped the outside of the necks with a krazy cloth and left the carbon in the necks. This step may have solved my runout issue. When i went to seat the bullets, with the le wilson, i lined up the set screw on the stem with the depth adjustment screw just to make it consistant as possible. My bullet runout now is averaging .002, which i think is acceptable. I suppose leaving the carbon in the necks and not wet tumbling made the seating smoother. Has anyone else encountered this? Wet tumbling vs. Just wiping off the outside of the cases?
Thanks Joe

 

[dkhunt14]

So you tumble your brass in stainless steel media?

No I don't tumble. I clean spinning them with steel wool on outside. I then use an old brush with steel wool wrapped around, spun with a drill and cleaned inside neck. Matt

 

[lrgoodger]

Reading through this thread, I didn't see if you confirmed that you were shaving your case necks . . .???

I improved my run out by doing so. When I first started shaving I'd remove material until about 20% was not quite touched and I didn't see much improvement in my run out with that. So I decided to shave until the whole neck was to a uniform thickness without taking off any more than I had to. That made a definite difference in the run out I was getting. And when one thinks about it, it stands to reason that it should when the whole neck is uniform in thickness.

Ditto. I found that a partially turned neck would always introduce runout toward the side of the neck that was untouched.

I think you have identified your biggest culprit. If you have a clean neck, it is 'grabby' when you seat the bullet. If I'm loading new brass, it is a necessity to lube the neck before seating. I use Lee lube on a Q-tip. Use it as sparingly as possible. If you can see it, you used too much. It only takes a few molecules to do the job. I still lube after firing and getting carbon in the neck, but it's not as critical as on new or cleaned brass.

Something else I've not seen mentioned in this thread is use of a Lee collet die and neck sizing only. Not to say that you can't get straight ammo with a bushing die, but I've just found it easier with the LCD. I have to full length size about every fifth firing and I find that always increases runout a bit. It goes back to straight again after firing. FLS includes bumping the shoulder a bit. I played with bumping the shoulder without FLS and found that its the process of bumping the shoulder that introduces runout, so I incorporated it back into the FLS process. Keep the bumping to a minimum (the .001 you mentioned is my max limit).

Something else the LCD does that I have NEVER seen mentioned on this forum is that it eliminates the need to brush the inside of the neck. The mandrel on the LCD going in knocks off any loose carbon and the process of squeezing the neck against the mandrel flattens the remaining carbon. My runout averages .0015 and never exceeds .003. I've had some boxes of 50 where every round was less than .001. Turning the cartridge 180 degrees while seating can improve runout, but why bother if they are averaging .0015 without doing that? For matches I sort by runout, use the crookedest ones for sighters and shoot the straightest ones for record targets.

As for not turning, using Lapua brass is the best way to go. I've found that the Lapua has only .0005 variation in neck thickness, and that is as good as it gets without turning. You can do well with that. I turn anyway because I want my ammo to be as perfect as I can get it.

Ron

 

[Ringostar]

I see that you mentioned using a bushing slightly smaller than bullet size. I hope that you meant loaded round neck diameter instead. Your bushing should be in the .288 range not .262 range for a 6.5 cartridge.

 

[JFASH]

I see that you mentioned using a bushing slightly smaller than bullet size. I hope that you meant loaded round neck diameter instead. Your bushing should be in the .288 range not .262 range for a 6.5 cartridge.

I use a .290 bushing

 

[BoydAllen]

Here is a thought for the tumblers. None of you shoot as well out to 300 yards (aggregates not wallet groups) as the regular competitors in short range group benchrest, and none of them tumble. They load at the range, and do not have time. My friend Gary Ocock does not even brush the insides of his necks and he currently owns several world records. There is not shiny case trophy. For long range the methods are different, but that is because the effects of the extreme spread of velocity within a group shows up at those distances, but even there one should not assume. I interviewed the three traveling trophy winners from the last IBS thousand yard nationals. Of the three, two do not anneal at all, based on testing, and the overall winner was shooting brass that my have had as many as twenty firings on it at the beginning of the match, and it had only been annealed once, early in its use. The common factor among all top shooters is that they do their own testing, and go with whatever works the best.

 

[AlNyhus]

Here is a thought for the tumblers. None of you shoot as well out to 300 yards (aggregates not wallet groups) as the regular competitors in short range group benchrest, and none of them tumble. They load at the range, and do not have time. My friend Gary Ocock does not even brush the insides of his necks and he currently owns several world records.

Amen, Boyd.

Carbon in the neck adds needed lubricity. I did, on occasion, give the neck i.d.'s an occasional brush with a loose fitting nylon brush. No tumbling, wiping the lube off the case keeps them clean enough, a swipe around the necks with some 000 steel wool, touch the primer pocket quickly and it's time to rock. -Al