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ShotMarker Rapid Fire sensors
- Thread starter adamjmac
- Start date
Thank You for the clarification.
Where you stated in your last post in this thread that you were a buyer of Gen 2, I was confused if you had already purchased or not.
What further improvements above that Adam has stated here and previous buyers feedback are you waiting for before purchasing for at $799 per firing point ?
Thanks again,
George
One more turn of the product development cycle (=greater product stability).
A $499 - $599 price point.
For those interested, the product dev cycle goes like this:
ALPHA products are experimental, fully and individually handmade with components either also handmade or bought from sources originally made for another purpose. If software, the software is written to test an idea to see if it works; there is NO error-checking, input verification, or anything else written into the software as it is entirely experimental. When it crashes, it crashes. If the product is both physical AND software, it is obviously fraught with problems and is entirely unsuited for sale to anyone other than close friends and masochists.
BETA products are products which the vendor intends to use his experience with to develop an actual consumer product. They are still largely handmade and are known to be very very buggy. "Early Adopters" buy BETA products. You can tell you have a BETA product when you are in such constant contact with the vendor that you have a personal relationship with them. IMO, and from their descriptions and from posted user experiences only, IMO most of the "electronic targets" on the market currently are BETA products. Pull some of these vendors aside, put a few beers in them, and ask them what they are developing. If their answer is "nothing" they don't believe in their product or its future.
Gen 1.0 products are actual consumer products, built from at least some spec'd and / or purpose-built components. They are distributed in a recognizable consumer format, they are intended for the mass market, they come with instructions that don't require a degree or special skills, they require little maintenance and little interaction with the vendor. IMO the "Caldwell Target Camera" is an example of a Gen 1.0 consumer product. It works ok, is mass produced, and very little tech support is required. In Gen 1.0 the vendor is gaining experience with supply chain / sourcing of parts and materials, is pushing his software developers hard to mature the software (if software is a significant product feature), and is figuring out the market.
Gen 2.0 products are true consumer products. The vendor believes he understands the market and commits capital. Manufacture of some or all of the components has been outsourced or an inhouse facility has been built and people fulltime hired to make the product. There is a visible marketing campaign. Pricing is very aggressive; the vendor has committed capital and wants market share. The product works, is easy to deploy, and product infant mortality is less than 5%. Tech support is available but not frequently needed.
One more turn of the product development cycle (=greater product stability).
A $499 - $599 price point.
For those interested, the product dev cycle goes like this:
ALPHA products are experimental, fully and individually handmade with components either also handmade or bought from sources originally made for another purpose. If software, the software is written to test an idea to see if it works; there is NO error-checking, input verification, or anything else written into the software as it is entirely experimental. When it crashes, it crashes. If the product is both physical AND software, it is obviously fraught with problems and is entirely unsuited for sale to anyone other than close friends and masochists.
BETA products are products which the vendor intends to use his experience with to develop an actual consumer product. They are still largely handmade and are known to be very very buggy. "Early Adopters" buy BETA products. You can tell you have a BETA product when you are in such constant contact with the vendor that you have a personal relationship with them. IMO, and from their descriptions and from posted user experiences only, IMO most of the "electronic targets" on the market currently are BETA products. Pull some of these vendors aside, put a few beers in them, and ask them what they are developing. If their answer is "nothing" they don't believe in their product or its future.
Gen 1.0 products are actual consumer products, built from at least some spec'd and / or purpose-built components. They are distributed in a recognizable consumer format, they are intended for the mass market, they come with instructions that don't require a degree or special skills, they require little maintenance and little interaction with the vendor. IMO the "Caldwell Target Camera" is an example of a Gen 1.0 consumer product. It works ok, is mass produced, and very little tech support is required. In Gen 1.0 the vendor is gaining experience with supply chain / sourcing of parts and materials, is pushing his software developers hard to mature the software (if software is a significant product feature), and is figuring out the market.
Gen 2.0 products are true consumer products. The vendor believes he understands the market and commits capital. Manufacture of some or all of the components has been outsourced or an inhouse facility has been built and people fulltime hired to make the product. There is a visible marketing campaign. Pricing is very aggressive; the vendor has committed capital and wants market share. The product works, is easy to deploy, and product infant mortality is less than 5%. Tech support is available but not frequently needed.
Given the above, it appears we all got Gen 2.0 products.
Given the above, it appears we all got Gen 2.0 products.
Link to the product?
One more turn of the product development cycle (=greater product stability).
A $499 - $599 price point.
For those interested, the product dev cycle goes like this:
ALPHA products are experimental, fully and individually handmade with components either also handmade or bought from sources originally made for another purpose. If software, the software is written to test an idea to see if it works; there is NO error-checking, input verification, or anything else written into the software as it is entirely experimental. When it crashes, it crashes. If the product is both physical AND software, it is obviously fraught with problems and is entirely unsuited for sale to anyone other than close friends and masochists.
BETA products are products which the vendor intends to use his experience with to develop an actual consumer product. They are still largely handmade and are known to be very very buggy. "Early Adopters" buy BETA products. You can tell you have a BETA product when you are in such constant contact with the vendor that you have a personal relationship with them. IMO, and from their descriptions and from posted user experiences only, IMO most of the "electronic targets" on the market currently are BETA products. Pull some of these vendors aside, put a few beers in them, and ask them what they are developing. If their answer is "nothing" they don't believe in their product or its future.
Gen 1.0 products are actual consumer products, built from at least some spec'd and / or purpose-built components. They are distributed in a recognizable consumer format, they are intended for the mass market, they come with instructions that don't require a degree or special skills, they require little maintenance and little interaction with the vendor. IMO the "Caldwell Target Camera" is an example of a Gen 1.0 consumer product. It works ok, is mass produced, and very little tech support is required. In Gen 1.0 the vendor is gaining experience with supply chain / sourcing of parts and materials, is pushing his software developers hard to mature the software (if software is a significant product feature), and is figuring out the market.
Gen 2.0 products are true consumer products. The vendor believes he understands the market and commits capital. Manufacture of some or all of the components has been outsourced or an inhouse facility has been built and people fulltime hired to make the product. There is a visible marketing campaign. Pricing is very aggressive; the vendor has committed capital and wants market share. The product works, is easy to deploy, and product infant mortality is less than 5%. Tech support is available but not frequently needed.
Thanks or sharing,
Now I / we better understand your previous comments here.
I'll have to admit I was thinking you were just yanking chains with your previous posts in this thread. I'm glad that doesn't seem to be the case.
So, you are just waiting for the Shotmarker (or a competitor) to offer all that the ShotMarker currently offers and maybe more but just at a price point of $500 - $600 per firing point.
I suppose that would be great....
My Ford SHO sticker was in the high 40's. I wish I could have got it for $20k.
I didn't but I'm still glad I bought it cuz I love it, it deos all that I wanted it to do and I couldn't justify buying a Caddy CTS - V for $80k... lol
Back On ShotmarkerTopic:
Given the relatively small size of the E - Target Market, this probably unrealistic tho..
I am very impressed and grateful that Adam is able to offer his current / excellent product at only $799
I have no reservation about the 6 points I already got my club to invest in or the 4 more I am ordering now.
I will have no regrets in having bought in the unlikely event that a product that does all the Shotmarker currently does is ever available at the price point you are waiting for. Could be along wait... I'm happy to be using now.
Thank again,
George
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Good luck applying your Powerpoint presentation to this product. Software/firmware revisions are being provided free of charge. Everything is stable. The first edition of the product had all that an individual would want. The second (a small change to the sensor) has provided a better platform for clubs looking for across the line rapid fire use. Given the niche nature of the product I doubt we'll see significant price reductions as a result of mass production efficiencies or market share grab. I don't think Adam sits at home making these himself at the moment. The price point is already extremely competitive for clubs and individuals alike. Is there a true new competitor on the horizon? I'd expect large price falls from the incumbent expensive solutions rather than from Adam. Shotmarker is the disruptor.
My old local club (prior to the move across the ditch) was Bisley in Surry UK (home of the NRA UK). 3000 acres of shooting range with distances out to 1200. In 2017 they were desperately trying to roll out more electronic targets to encourage more use of the range. (Without them individuals had to hire markers etc to work the butts, find shooting buddies or travel back and forth, all of which discouraged use.) But deploying them was expensive. Adam's Shotmarker would be a Godsend.
My old local club (prior to the move across the ditch) was Bisley in Surry UK (home of the NRA UK). 3000 acres of shooting range with distances out to 1200. In 2017 they were desperately trying to roll out more electronic targets to encourage more use of the range. (Without them individuals had to hire markers etc to work the butts, find shooting buddies or travel back and forth, all of which discouraged use.) But deploying them was expensive. Adam's Shotmarker would be a Godsend.
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Got to feel a little sympathetic to those early adopters who put down $3500 for a SMT G2 now. I’m sure they wouldn’t have done it if they couldn’t afford to take the loss and if it wasn’t for them jumping in there wouldn’t have been a market emerging to support the investment in the $800 generation.
jkl
Silver $$ Contributor
If it wasn't for the SMT G2 targets, the countless software updates SMT provided free, where would we be today. There was a time we all felt like test pilots when we got the targets. So in my opinion there would not have been the SMT Solo or Shotmarker for under $900.00 with out the early technology adopters.
I have had a 5 sensor G2 for 3 years. There have been countless number of shots that everyone fired on my target as well as the 16 other G2 targets at Ben Avery. I still have no regrets as I was just able to enjoy the electronic targets 3 years before all of you. I was shooting on a G2 today and it functioned perfect.
So I have done business with Adam I have his thrower and trickler. I was one of the early orders on the trickler as well as the thrower and his service has been as good as it gets. The same with Silver mountain it could not have been a better experience.
Keep up moving forward with technology improvements and the shooting experience will only get better.
John
I have had a 5 sensor G2 for 3 years. There have been countless number of shots that everyone fired on my target as well as the 16 other G2 targets at Ben Avery. I still have no regrets as I was just able to enjoy the electronic targets 3 years before all of you. I was shooting on a G2 today and it functioned perfect.
So I have done business with Adam I have his thrower and trickler. I was one of the early orders on the trickler as well as the thrower and his service has been as good as it gets. The same with Silver mountain it could not have been a better experience.
Keep up moving forward with technology improvements and the shooting experience will only get better.
John
^^^ this..Good luck applying your Powerpoint presentation to this product. Software/firmware revisions are being provided free of charge. Everything is stable. The first edition of the product had all that an individual would want. The second (a small change to the sensor) has provided a better platform for clubs looking for across the line rapid fire use. Given the niche nature of the product I doubt we'll see significant price reductions as a result of mass production efficiencies or market share grab. I don't think Adam sits at home making these himself at the moment. The price point is already extremely competitive for clubs and individuals alike. Is there a true new competitor on the horizon? I'd expect large price falls from the incumbent expensive solutions rather than from Adam. Shotmarker is the disruptor.
My old local club (prior to the move across the ditch) was Bisley in Surry UK (home of the NRA UK). 3000 acres of shooting range with distances out to 1200. In 2017 they were desperately trying to roll out more electronic targets to encourage more use of the range. (Without them individuals had to hire markers etc to work the butts, find shooting buddies or travel back and forth, all of which discouraged use.) But deploying them was expensive. Adam's Shotmarker would be a Godsend.
Thanks for your interpretation of Adams Shotmarker....Good luck with your price reduction, some free advice is buy it now and you will save some $$$, as stated by others the $799 price point is the cheapest on the market and I know from personal experience that this product is good to go..SOFTWARE UPDATES ARE FREE, which I’ve had to do zero of since purchasing...So you will always have the latest version.Fear not the Beta or Gen 1.0 buy and enjoy now cos your missing out!!!One more turn of the product development cycle (=greater product stability).
A $499 - $599 price point.
For those interested, the product dev cycle goes like this:
ALPHA products are experimental, fully and individually handmade with components either also handmade or bought from sources originally made for another purpose. If software, the software is written to test an idea to see if it works; there is NO error-checking, input verification, or anything else written into the software as it is entirely experimental. When it crashes, it crashes. If the product is both physical AND software, it is obviously fraught with problems and is entirely unsuited for sale to anyone other than close friends and masochists.
BETA products are products which the vendor intends to use his experience with to develop an actual consumer product. They are still largely handmade and are known to be very very buggy. "Early Adopters" buy BETA products. You can tell you have a BETA product when you are in such constant contact with the vendor that you have a personal relationship with them. IMO, and from their descriptions and from posted user experiences only, IMO most of the "electronic targets" on the market currently are BETA products. Pull some of these vendors aside, put a few beers in them, and ask them what they are developing. If their answer is "nothing" they don't believe in their product or its future.
Gen 1.0 products are actual consumer products, built from at least some spec'd and / or purpose-built components. They are distributed in a recognizable consumer format, they are intended for the mass market, they come with instructions that don't require a degree or special skills, they require little maintenance and little interaction with the vendor. IMO the "Caldwell Target Camera" is an example of a Gen 1.0 consumer product. It works ok, is mass produced, and very little tech support is required. In Gen 1.0 the vendor is gaining experience with supply chain / sourcing of parts and materials, is pushing his software developers hard to mature the software (if software is a significant product feature), and is figuring out the market.
Gen 2.0 products are true consumer products. The vendor believes he understands the market and commits capital. Manufacture of some or all of the components has been outsourced or an inhouse facility has been built and people fulltime hired to make the product. There is a visible marketing campaign. Pricing is very aggressive; the vendor has committed capital and wants market share. The product works, is easy to deploy, and product infant mortality is less than 5%. Tech support is available but not frequently needed.
I see this “software updates are free” stuff all the time. You wouldn’t need a software update if there wasn’t a defect of some kind, including features overlooked. I get free software updates from both Microsoft and Apple every week, largely because they left security vulnerabilities in their product. A better badge of quality would be that “I haven’t needed a software update for a year, now”.
Defect or upgrade, either way it’s free and no need to purchase new unit or product just a free sortware update for the latest features..An example would be Lyman’s gen 1 to gen 2 borescope, no free update there if you want the higher resolution screen and you have the gen 1 Lyman you have to purchase the new gen 2 unit.. I hope that the Shotmarker continues to have upgrades of defect fixes for free well into the future..either way gen 1 is good to go for most users now..One thing that made my decision easier to buy SM now was I could get updates/defect fixes with this unit rather than buy another unit, for my personal use it covers all of my needs..I see this “software updates are free” stuff all the time. You wouldn’t need a software update if there wasn’t a defect of some kind, including features overlooked. I get free software updates from both Microsoft and Apple every week, largely because they left security vulnerabilities in their product. A better badge of quality would be that “I haven’t needed a software update for a year, now”.
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If you didn't have updates there would be no progression in how things were made or ran better for less money. I bought a SMT Gen 2 and am not sorry, would I bin it and buy again now E Targets are cheaper NO. Why there are no light weight plastic pieces to watch out for in handling and setup. The extra mics may be more accurate than the 1mm I have, I shoot for score not group. No target puller is that accurate. Am I happy YES easy to setup, can go shooting on the range without having to take a team of Navvies. If and when the G 2 dies I will look at whats new not before.
How can it be a license to steal when you go from machined plastics to injection moulding for the same parts.Great, We usually call that “a license to steal” in the business.
Same bull every time this comes up. Simple solution. If you want one buy it. If not then don't buy one. One day every Fclass match will be on Etargets. Everything electronic gets updated over time.
It's unfortunate but it looks like you are pretty close to correct for a high % of most of the posts I have read on E targets here and at USNM...
The people that have no intention of using them or liking them ( even as they continue to develop ) tend to drone out those that are working to make these systems better and more affordable for all.
True Bummer...
So glad I got my club to Invest in ShotMarker early... ZERO Regrets...
George
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