Inertia bullet puller mishap

[fguffey]

Years ago, I had a primer go off, a 210M in a swaged military .308 case,

It is possible he formed 308 W cases from 30/06 cases with out turning and or reaming the necks. Failing to ream or turn the necks could have made the neck of the case in the die too small to allow for seating bullets, then the very scary part, he was wicking away at a die with a loaded round in an attempt to dislodge the bullet.

Scary part" The sizing die offered support for the case but without case head support, the die was open on both ends. Even then bullet pullers were available.

F. Guffey

 

[StemCell]

Sorry if I missed it, but did the primer for sure actually ignite? (There was smoke, and inspecting the recovered primer indicates it ignited?)

I am curious about the primer pocket, was it possibly somewhat loose? I.e. could the cup of the primer have been loose enough to allow it to move downward in compression like the "secondary impact" of objects inside a car in a head-on crash? If the primer cup is free to move, it would compress against the anvil this way.

That's the only logical explanation I can think of. Even if the pocket was tight, the primer almost certainly had to compress if it ignited.



The primer ignited. There was a visible flash above the rear of the cartridge upon ignition. Upon inspection of the then de-primed round, I was able to get powder granules out of the flash hole, and initially observed no obstruction in the flash hole. Nearly the full charge, 22.5 grains of N140, remained in the case.

The primer pocket was not loose, and the primer was not deformed, or smashed, during the seating process. I reloaded the casing this morning and confirmed the primer pocket seems normally tight.

While I am thankful that the powder charge did not ignite--I cannot explain how it did not any more than how the primer ignited.

It took me 4 or 5 raps to pull the first round's bullet which is a normal amount for me so I do not believe I was excessive.

I have yet to find the primer--that will be this weekend's mission.

BTW--if anyone had told me this could happen prior to yesterday, I would have told them it was impossible.

Regards,

 

[kentcroy]

To answer your questions, yes I was using a RCBS kinetic bullet puller, the case was Lake City .308 military with the primer pocket crimp removed by using a swaging die, the primer was properly seated down to the bottom of the pocket. The Herters die had a somewhat small expander ball, that was giving me excessive neck tension. It took a lot of force to dislodge those bullets, and I have always assumed that the primer detonation had something to do with the heavy handed force I was using at the time, as I never had a problem before or in the twenty years since.
Soon after I bought a Lee die set, accuracy improved. Then I got a Redding S type bushing die, that alowed me to get a proper .002" neck tension, witch in turn I am able to unload with relative ease.

 

[SShooterZ]

Glad you weren't hurt in the mishap. I've had a few bust on me, the puller, not the round, so I went to a Hornady collet puller and have been very happy with it. My only gripe is the collection of inserts you need to buy for each bullet size you have to pull.

 

[Brians356]

Obviously the plastic inertia design has limitations. I've had the same RCBS for decades, haven't dislodged many bullets with it over the years, but I do feel it's better to use less forceful raps, and more of them, than brute force - the tool will last longer, and probably primer mishaps could be avoided.

A trick to aid in this approach is to use a Sharpie to mark the bullet right where it clears the case mouth. Then you can practice rapping the tool, starting light and slowly increasing the force, until you detect an incremental movement of the bullet. That becomes the "feel" you are after. Then you "walk" the bullet using many raps of that same force. One you develop the feel, subsequent rounds can be extracted with N repetitions of that stroke, somewhat predictably.

My approach probably works for me since I use minimal neck tension, and have used moly bullets a lot over the years. Plain copper bullets, high neck tension, and especially "stiction" developed in rounds loaded some years ago can require a more brute force approach that makes me queasy, and ill suits the plastic inertial tool.

I am intrigued by the collet design, but struggle to justify the cost as I so seldom need to disassemble rounds.

 

[searcher]

I may have missed it being said - but it is also a possibility that it was a primer that had defects which were not readily apparent. Stranger things have happened. I am intrigued not so much by the fact that the primer went off - but that the powder did not ignite. Perhaps such a possible defect had something to do with blocking the flash hole while it was being propelled out of the case. The several plausible scenarios others have brought up definitely make one stop and think of the inherent dangers of what we are doing - and this will make me switch to a full-face shield if I use my inertia puller again. Thanks for posting.

 

[sbhooper]

I used the inertia pullers for many years with no problem, other than a flat bullet tip once-in-a-while. I recently bought a Grip-n-pull puller and it is definitely the best and quickest puller on the market as far as I am concerned. I always was waiting for a primer to detonate while using the inertia.

 

[amlevin]

- and this will make me switch to a full-face shield if I use my inertia puller again. Thanks for posting.

It's amazing the number of people that have these and don't/won't use them. Apparently they are relying on the "I've never had a problem yet" philosophy.

 

[Ksmirk]

Rather old post but just had this happen to me, I missed a loose primer pocket until I set it on my bench and noticed it so got out the eraser BUT this time I just used my shell holder and second hit POP! pretty sure I pee'd a little and don't think I'll have to crap for a couple of days but everything is intact and a lesson learned! granted not the way I'd like to learn.

What I've come up with thinking about it was the primer pocket was loose so the primer could have been able to move and the impact of the hammer caused the anvil to slam against the case which set the primer off. I've used the thing over the years at least on 1K different cases over the years but I guess there is always a first and thinking about it this was also the first time I had ever used the shell holder which could have also been a factor. I always wear my safety glasses and ya know I still have no idea where that primer went just glad I'm able to type this and let folks know stupid things can happen even to the safest of folks.

Kirk

 

[Dusty Stevens]

Yall be careful. The pma bullet puller is the simplest solution. I do like the camloc style collet pullers but its a lot of pieces and complicated if youre using only one press

 

[Campbell]

I am surprised.

The only case of a detonation during bullet pulling that I was informed of was a .303 round that had misfired. The problem being is that the .303 primer has the anvil inverted and the kintec action, coupled with the misfire caused it to go off.

In this case, could there have been a stainless steel pin stuck in the primer pocket? Just asking like.

 

[josh shrum]

There have been many studies conducted concerning what loaded ammo does in a fire, which may offer some insight into what happened to the OP.

In one such study, heat was applied to ammo using a propane torch. Depending on where that heat was applied, only certain parts of the cartridge would ignite. But, in nearly all cases, only some of the powder burnt. Again, this was heating with a blow torch, not an actual house fire.

It stands to reason that, with the OP's experience, perhaps a loose primer pocket allowed the detonating primer to fly out before enough of the flame from detonation could ignite the powder in the case.

In all of the studies about ammo in a fire, at least when referring to ammo not chambered or in a metal container, the greatest danger seemed to be from pieces/chunks of flying brass. While those flying pieces were not deadly, and would not penetrate the clothes worn by firefighters, they were dangerous to exposed skin/eyes.

-Obligatory eye protection service announcement here-

I am bad about this myself even though I have eye pro on my loading bench.

 

[muleman69]

I started reloading back in 67 with a Lee hand loading kit. The seating tool consisted of a anvil that the primer set on. A case was set on the primer. A rod went down in the case. You then smacked the rod with a nylon hammer driving the case down and over the primer seating it. Impact all the way. Never had a problem with standard primers but set off quite a few CCI mags. Quite exciting to say the least. Later! Frank

Those were the days...lol

 

[Papa Charlie]

I use the Hornady camlock bullet puller. It is one of the safest methods in my mind. I dislike the hammer type. Just don't like slamming a live round around.

https://www.hornady.com/reloading/presses/lock-n-load-accessories/bullet-pullers-bullet-collets#!/

 

[JMayo]

This reminds me to wear my glasses and to not stand directly over hammer ...
I needed the reminder. I have 100 to knock out.

I love the internet....so many thoughts. A "think tank" that is made up of all kinds of minds ..... Learning to navigate through is in its self a mighty skill !

 

[Ksmirk]

I am surprised.

The only case of a detonation during bullet pulling that I was informed of was a .303 round that had misfired. The problem being is that the .303 primer has the anvil inverted and the kintec action, coupled with the misfire caused it to go off.

In this case, could there have been a stainless steel pin stuck in the primer pocket? Just asking like.

I’m pretty good about checking the flash holes for spares BUT I’m normally pretty good about gaging primer pocket holes.... I didn’t find anything out of the ordinary when I got the bullet out, the primer well it will take the vaccum I’m sure to find it in the carpet as it took off rather speedy!

 

[Ksmirk]

I’ve had enough happen to my eyes over the years that while I don’t wear eye pro 100% of the time there are times it’s the first thing I grab, seating primers and erasing mistakes are a given! I’ve had one pop while seating and that will make you change your shorts lol!

That I’ve had some time to really think it over and from what I’ve seen besides the mess I would have made in my shorts I don’t believe if the primer would have set the powder off it would have been more of a sudden release of pressure and without being confined that pressure release would not have been too great so I don’t think it would have been catastrophic but I can promise you I’d rather not test my theory! and I will be getting some more calibers for my collet puller

Kirk

 

[Raythemanroe]

Primer clearly wasn't a dud, why wouldn't the powder have ignited? You must be able to supply Pictures right?

Just curious, I have never seen an ignited primer without a mark on the primer.. It would be cool to see the pictures..


Ray

 

[PDS]

I too had a primer ignite while using an impact puller. About 2 weeks ago I found a box of reloaded 6mm Remington that was 12 years old. I noticed one case had a primer that was not fully seated. I decided to pull the bullet,dump the powder and reseat the primer.
The impact puller was an older Midway with the three segment case holder. I have used this puller for years with out any problems.
The bullet in this case was very hard to remove. I must have done 10 or 12 hits and the bullet while moving still hadn't fully released. With another hit there was a small flash more like a spark and a small pop.
I then noticed the primer was missing, the powder did not ignite. I have never had a bullet that was this hard to pull it took 2 more hits to pull the bullet.
The primer was a Rem 7 1/2 the powder was Varget. My feeling is that the multiple impacts drove the primer to the bottom of the pocket and the last impact crushed the pellet and fired it. The powder did not ignite because there was nothing to hold the primer in the case. I later found the primer cup without the anvil, it looked like an unfired primer except it was black inside.
I later pulled 3 more cases from the box they all pulled with 2 or 3 hits like normal. I won't quit using my impact puller for the occasional case. I think this was an exceptional occurrence because of the very tight bullet and the partially seated primer. I won't use the impact puller on a case with a high primer though.

 

[Joe Salt]

Seen guys use the hammer pullers years ago, never went for the whacking on a hard surface with a loaded round. I only use a Collet die!

Joe Salt