Heavy 10 First Step - Power

[RWO]

My first option on VFD's are from https://www.automationdirect.com/adc/Shopping/Catalog/Drives Manuals are available online and tech support is first rate. I have had two in my shop for 14 yrs with no problems.

 

[GSPV]

While you have your electrician at your home, I'd suggest you have him check your motor wiring and look at the VFD you're considering while he's there. Conversations on the 'net can be difficult for many reasons, but some information you are presenting is a bit confusing. Best to make sure your set-up is what you need.

Just a suggestion, no offence intended to anyone.

I’ve already talked to him. All is good.

 

[GSPV]

Hook up your 220v into the input side of VFD and the 3PH output to motor(three wires). All over switches and controls are laid out in manual and controlled with low voltage(VFD side of drive).

Here is mine wired on bench.

Biggest hurdle is understanding the manual. Read it over and over...once you have an understanding of what is going on...it will fall into place. I've never touched a VFD in my life and got it figured out. I'm far from being a electrician also...then again...I'm sure many electricians never messed with a VFD.

Programming the VFD, as long as the documentation is correct and I can get support will be easy-peasy. I do similar every blessed day and have for over 30 years. Try installing an Oracle SuperCluster from landing on the dock to running in production. It’s hairy.

I just don’t have time to either come up to speed on NEC and local regs. Nor do I have time for poor documentation or support. Not when I don’t have to

 

[TRA]

Programming the VFD, as long as the documentation is correct and I can get support will be easy-peasy. I do similar every blessed day and have for over 30 years. Try installing an Oracle SuperCluster from landing on the dock to running in production. It’s hairy.

I just don’t have time to either come up to speed on NEC and local regs. Nor do I have time for poor documentation or support. Not when I don’t have to

I don't see where NEC would apply or even necessary for your application. If you understand wiring, and I believe you do,.... it's just straight forward wiring. These drives draw very little load. We have large machines that only draw a few amps. Hard to believe so many drives and so little draw. If you have access to MTW wire 14ga is plenty, in or out. We throw away probably more than you will need, so it you have a need speak up, and I'll deliver.


Edit........
If you would like to test drive a few different brands of manuals, I can supply also. Yaskawa, Teco, Lenze....

 

[GSPV]

I don't see where NEC would apply or even necessary for your application. If you understand wiring, and I believe you do,.... it's just straight forward wiring. These drives draw very little load. We have large machines that only draw a few amps. Hard to believe so many drives and so little draw. If you have access to MTW wire 14ga is plenty, in or out. We throw away probably more than you will need, so it you have a need speak up, and I'll deliver.

NEC and local codes come in because I do not have an available 220 outlet in my garage. I need an outlet and I need it done to code...since I’m selling the place in the relatively near future. I believe that that is all that I need the electrician for. From there, I think that I can handle it. Yes, there are other ways to skin this cat. I see having an outlet for the power side of the VFD...or something very close to that idea...as a divide and conquer strategy that will let me get on with this project, doing as much myself as possible, and not having a surprise foul up a sale when I want to move the house. Burnt once, I am now twice shy.

Dude, that is so nice of you to offer up the wire. I appreciate it! I’ll draw up what I think I’ll need and definitely hit you up. Again, I appreciate it! That’s why this forum is so cool. People willing to help one another.

 

[TRA]

When you install your 220 be sure you run 4 wire to the sub panel. Once you venture into 220v and above and 3ph the white is no longer usable as a ground,( never was) and the green is not to be connected to the neutral/white. 220 is 2-usually black- conductors.

 

[GSPV]

When you install your 220 be sure you run 4 wire to the sub panel. Once you venture into 220v and above and 3ph the white is no longer usable as a ground,( never was) and the green is not to be connected to the neutral/white. 220 is 2-usually black- conductors.

Will do.

 

[tobnpr]

Programming the VFD, as long as the documentation is correct and I can get support will be easy-peasy. I do similar every blessed day and have for over 30 years. Try installing an Oracle SuperCluster from landing on the dock to running in production. It’s hairy.

I just don’t have time to either come up to speed on NEC and local regs. Nor do I have time for poor documentation or support. Not when I don’t have to

As I mentioned back on page 1, the Teco comes with "easy enough" to understand documentation for programming parameters. Manual is available online, easy enough to take a look at it. After buying a PID for my Cerakote oven off Ebay- and throwing it out because the instructions were unreadable- I won't make that mistake again...

 

[hoz53]

I don't see where NEC would apply or even necessary for your application. If you understand wiring, and I believe you do,.... it's just straight forward wiring. These drives draw very little load. We have large machines that only draw a few amps. Hard to believe so many drives and so little draw. If you have access to MTW wire 14ga is plenty, in or out. We throw away probably more than you will need, so it you have a need speak up, and I'll deliver.


Edit........
If you would like to test drive a few different brands of manuals, I can supply also. Yaskawa, Teco, Lenze....

NEC always applies when doing work like that in your house if it is in a jurisdiction that has adopted NEC as the electrical code there.

 

[hoz53]

Hey guys, just a power update on my SB10L project.

I looked into doing the 220 outlet myself and got snowed under in all of the NEC associated with it.

So, I’ve got an electrician coming out Sunday to put in the 220 outlet.

I’ve got to double check my rewiring of the motor from 440 to 220. Just something that occurred to me and I can’t get out of my head.

From there, I’ll start on the VFD part of the project.

In an ideal world, I would have liked to run an initial test of the motor without the VFD in place. You know, the “change one thing at a time” philosophy. But, because I need the VFD for 1P-to-3P conversation, I can’t.

I’ve been following this tutorial. I’m not sold on the Teco VFD. I’m going to do quite a bit of research before selecting one. Looking for models that have awesome support. Life is too short to wade through incorrect documentation written by someone with poor English writing skills

1. I’ve got a Hitachi drive I would send you to try it out as I have never been able to figure out how to program it. Mabie you could figure it out but I wouldn’t recommend trying it. I am a Licensed Master Electrician. I’m going to get one of the Tecos and try it as I have heard good things about them.

2. A little three phase motor like you have is easy to start on 220 Volt single phase with no load on it. Check into it and I’m sure you can figure it out. Remember in a rotary phase converter they start the 3 phase idler motor that is part of the RPC on single phase. Of coarse a small 3 phase motor that would work in your lathe is pretty cheap. If you’re using a VFD make sure to get inverter rated motors.

 

[GSPV]

You bring up the very question that I have about my motor. This is a 1965 lathe. I think that it’s likely a 1965 motor. I don’t see anything about being inverter rated.

That brings up the idea of selling it and getting one that is rated for a VFD and its slightly funky waveforms

 

[Someoldguy]

You bring up the very question that I have about my motor. This is a 1965 lathe. I think that it’s likely a 1965 motor. I don’t see anything about being inverter rated.

That brings up the idea of selling it and getting one that is rated for a VFD and its slightly funky waveforms

That's because VFDs or inverters weren't available in the 60s. Motors don't care if the input is a nice analog sine wave or a choppy sorta sine wave, they'll run on either just fine. VFDs were very expensive for a long time until the technology became common and cheap, which is why rotary phase converters were used, which weren't cheap, either. But they were available.

My SB Heavy 10 runs on a 110V input VFD and that motor is almost as old as I am.

 

[GSPV]

That’s why I mentioned its age. It’s good to know that it’ll run on it without issues.

I believe that the motor is pretty sealed. Will overheating be an issue if I run it at lower speeds? I’d thought about putting a fan on it, but I don’t see a way for the air to circulate. I’ve got fans from rack mounted servers.

 

[hoz53]

That’s why I mentioned its age. It’s good to know that it’ll run on it without issues.

I believe that the motor is pretty sealed. Will overheating be an issue if I run it at lower speeds? I’d thought about putting a fan on it, but I don’t see a way for the air to circulate. I’ve got fans from rack mounted servers.

I’ve talked to industrial maintenance guys who tell me they will put a VFD on aN old motor and run it until it drops then replace with a inverter rated motor. That’s what you should do. It’s the frequency change that will kill a noninverter rated motor. We are not talking thousands of dollars here. You could Mabie get 50 bucks out of the old motor but I doubt it. Used 3phase motors are a dime a dozen. A new motor Mabie 100 bucks or so. No need to overthink it.

 

[Dusty Stevens]

That’s why I mentioned its age. It’s good to know that it’ll run on it without issues.

I believe that the motor is pretty sealed. Will overheating be an issue if I run it at lower speeds? I’d thought about putting a fan on it, but I don’t see a way for the air to circulate. I’ve got fans from rack mounted servers.

Running at slower speeds will cause overheating and a sealed “wash down” motor is even worse. Chambering barrels youll never overheat it. The duty cycle is very very small chambering.

 

[sdean]

You are way over thinking this. Simplest hookup there is a Vfd on a SB lathe. You can use the existing switches on the lathe. Just wire them to the Vfd. You can make this as easy or hard as you want. I made mine hard with a pretty box and Estop and jog switch. If I did again would just use the existing switches. I suggest look at the programming and start the motor slow and stop fast. Push a few buttons and it's done. You have picked the best lathe there is to learn. Most screw ups you just slip the belt. If you overheat anything clambering a barrel you are doing it way wrong. Have fun. Watch a bunch of youtubes.

 

[hoz53]

You are way over thinking this. Simplest hookup there is a Vfd on a SB lathe. You can use the existing switches on the lathe. Just wire them to the Vfd. You can make this as easy or hard as you want. I made mine hard with a pretty box and Estop and jog switch. If I did again would just use the existing switches. I suggest look at the programming and start the motor slow and stop fast. Push a few buttons and it's done. You have picked the best lathe there is to learn. Most screw ups you just slip the belt. If you overheat anything clambering a barrel you are doing it way wrong. Have fun. Watch a bunch of youtubes.

^+1

 

[GSPV]

You guys make a great point. Overthinking is a failing of mine. I’ll wire it up to the existing switch and get going. If I want the other features, I’ll add them incrementally.

 

[tobnpr]

I got lucky as a pig in shit when I repowered mine. Looking for a 3-phase motor on CL at the time, 2 miles from me was a brand new Marathon inverter motor that I picked up for $150 ($1500 list). When I first powered up, the thing shook and vibrated so bad I though it was going to explode. Couldn't figure it out, then someone told me the VFD has an "autotune" function which I guess tunes it's output to the motor. Above my pay grade as to how, but after that was done no more vibration- just a bit of a high frequency "whine".

My understanding though, is that inverter duty isn't a big deal unless you plan on running the motor for any length of time at a substantial frequency deviation. I can run mine at double-120hz, or a fraction, with no damage- but honestly never mess with the frequency much, still shift the belt. Inverter duty has to do with the windings' insulation, built to take the heat that a typical 60 hz motor cannot.

 

[tn6br]

I have the teco for my Bridgeport mill and with no 3 phase experience, wired and programmed the vfd with external start/stop, brake, and directional switches in about 3 hours. The remote switches are easy to install and program in on the teco.

You guys make a great point. Overthinking is a failing of mine. I’ll wire it up to the existing switch and get going. If I want the other features, I’ll add them incrementally.