6.5 for deer...2600 fps <<< VS >>> 2800 fps...???

[Frankr]

yea well I cant spell or type. or much of anything else for that matter.
You can do what ever makes you happy or what you would like to try but I always go for as much speed as I can get and still shoot good and hit targets. Like a load at 2,950 FPS shoots low .300's at 200 Yards and a load that is 3,150 FPS shoots 1" to 1.5" at 200 Yards. now If I can hold 4 or 5" at 700 Yards and can hit Targets a few inches from my aim point out to 1,000 Yards I go with the faster load. That would be a example of my 6XC.. I know guys who shoot 2" groups at 200 Yards and in the field they have not missed out to 1K. So how accurate do you need for deer shooting even at long range. I like to keep about .5 MOA but 1MOA will work or has worked.

 

[284winner]

Controversy always surrounds the topic of which bullet works best and the dreaded comments that " Target(match) bullets are not for hunting". Both velocities will be fine for bullet performance. DRT would be based on shot placement. Put either bullet in the vitals and it's a dead deer.

 

[sbhooper]

120 BT is the lightest I would go. I really never intended to go to a 120gr but gun loves it and it has performed great on deer.

If you are going to shoot 100-grain bullets, why not just use a 6mm of some type? You are losing bc on the 6.5 bullets, by going that low. They start fast and run out of gas. I prefer 130 grain bullets at least, but the 120 would be a great compromise and they also shoot well in my rifles.

 

[fredo]

A 6.5mm 140gr bullet will bleed off ~300fps within the first 200yds from the muzzle...

Soooooo, if ya wanna ponder how that boolit might perform, extrapolate the obvious. I.e. If you'd shoot a deer @ 500yds with that bullet going 2900, it's gonna have the SAME impact velocity @ 300yds, when fired at an initial 2600fps...

Same impact velocity will yield the same terminal results, with shot placement a constant.

As to the DRT request, that still hinges on shot placement. CNS = DRT, with the caveat that "D" = Down, but not necessarily Dead. I believe that was described adequately in an earlier post, no need to dwell upon it further...

 

[oregonshooter]

I just checked my two best loads and they are not 200 fps apart like i was guessing, because my new chrony says these two loads are 300 fps apart. My clover leaf Carolina Load is now 2600 fps with 140 sst, H3831 sc, fed 210, .... and my dime-nickel size load is almost touching 2900 fps (2889)... now I hate to give up nearly 300 fps, because that will surely help a lot with DRT kills. What do you guys think?

Nickel is still a great group! As in all things.... What are you going to do with it? how far do you intend to shoot?

 

[daniel brothers]

My main purpose for this thread is not about CNS kills from high shoulder, neck or head shots, but lung area explosions, which can cause DRT, with the right bullet and speed... just like in Gel Test. I like the ideal of shooting light bullets really fast, and may do that, but at this moment, I think I'll shoot these 140 SST at 2889 fps from my Savage FV... and 2850 fps from my Savage Axis, which will be mainly for my elderly buddy to shoot. I think I would like the 120-130 bt, but these 140's should work as well at higher speeds. If the first deer or hog I shoot at this next week does NOT drop with a lung shot, I'll be going back to the drawing board, since my whole purpose is NOT killing critters, but dropping them with lung shots. I want all the energy and fragments to do their job inside the animal... not on the outsides. Meat is not the issue, but internal explosion is everything to me... but that's just me. thanks Guys for all your helpful information.

 

[284winner]

My main purpose for this thread is not about CNS kills from high shoulder, neck or head shots, but lung area explosions, which can cause DRT, with the right bullet and speed... just like in Gel Test. I like the ideal of shooting light bullets really fast, and may do that, but at this moment, I think I'll shoot these 140 SST at 2889 fps from my Savage FV... and 2850 fps from my Savage Axis, which will be mainly for my elderly buddy to shoot. I think I would like the 120-130 bt, but these 140's should work as well at higher speeds. If the first deer or hog I shoot at this next week does NOT drop with a lung shot, I'll be going back to the drawing board, since my whole purpose is NOT killing critters, but dropping them with lung shots. I want all the energy and fragments to do their job inside the animal... not on the outsides. Meat is not the issue, but internal explosion is everything to me... but that's just me. thanks Guys for all your helpful information.

That's interesting. I try and explain to buddy's that an exit with a bullet isn't necessarily the best thing. Tracking deer isn't something I've had to do but one time shot by a rifle. My bullets typically wind up just under the skin on the opposite end of the animal. They get the entire energy load. Nothing is wasted. Most if not all the Amax, Berger's or Sierras stay inside destroying vitals. Partitions type bullets do the same but with much less damage. As for high speed bullets, I think the upper end of most Calibers tend to offer the best BCs and overall performance UNLESS your objective is to keep that projectile in the animal and not exit. Most people I know seem to want an exit hole. The only time I prefer an exit hole is with an arrow.

 

[CTK]

If you are going to shoot 100-grain bullets, why not just use a 6mm of some type? You are losing bc on the 6.5 bullets, by going that low. They start fast and run out of gas. I prefer 130 grain bullets at least, but the 120 would be a great compromise and they also shoot well in my rifles.

I ran the numbers comparing a Berger 135 Classic Hunter 6.5mm and a 120 Ballistic Tip. The 135 CH @2700 fps MV. is going the same speed at 400y as the 120BT which was launched @ 2900fps. Less wind drift on the 135gr as well. I ran this last year. Was surprised by the result. Obviously the performance differences increasingly favor the higher BC 135 past 400y in both energy and velocity. The only reason I am still using the 120BT is that my rifle puts 3 of them in one ragged hole. May try to work up a load with a heavier bullet this fall. Worst case, I stick with the 120 BT and drop deer that have not been advised that they are being hit with a less than ideal BC bullet.

 

[284winner]

I ran the numbers comparing a Berger 135 Classic Hunter 6.5mm and a 120 Ballistic Tip. The 135 CH @2700 fps MV. is going the same speed at 400y as the 120BT which was launched @ 2900fps. Less wind drift on the 135gr as well. I ran this last year. Was surprised by the result. Obviously the performance differences increasingly favor the higher BC 135 past 400y in both energy and velocity. The only reason I am still using the 120BT is that my rifle puts 3 of them in one ragged hole. May try to work up a load with a heavier bullet this fall. Worst case, I stick with the 120 BT and drop deer that have not been advised that they are being hit with a less than ideal BC bullet.

Only you know those numbers, the deer will never know the difference when they're hit

 

[sbhooper]

I ran the numbers comparing a Berger 135 Classic Hunter 6.5mm and a 120 Ballistic Tip. The 135 CH @2700 fps MV. is going the same speed at 400y as the 120BT which was launched @ 2900fps. Less wind drift on the 135gr as well. I ran this last year. Was surprised by the result. Obviously the performance differences increasingly favor the higher BC 135 past 400y in both energy and velocity. The only reason I am still using the 120BT is that my rifle puts 3 of them in one ragged hole. May try to work up a load with a heavier bullet this fall. Worst case, I stick with the 120 BT and drop deer that have not been advised that they are being hit with a less than ideal BC bullet.

Not to mention, most deer are shot under 300 yards. Out to 400 yards, bc differences are irrelevant.

 

[Knotwild]

I found this website with actual results on game.

https://www.ballisticstudies.com/Knowledgebase.html

 

[fredo]

My main purpose for this thread is not about CNS kills from high shoulder, neck or head shots, but lung area explosions, which can cause DRT, with the right bullet and speed... just like in Gel Test.

Cool as those ballistic tests are to watch, deer ain't made of gel. Plus, I haven't seen many gel tests where a bullet has to break thru a rib, beforehand?
Wonder if & how the 'wound channel' would look, comparatively?
And, what if the bullet juuust clipped a rib, instead of center punching it? Would that cause the bullet to somehow shear off, or tumble, or...who knows what???

Surely, those different scenarios will affect how a particular bullet expands, or doesn't...

Just sayin, these are the variables that need accounted for, before one could hypothesize as to if 'bullet X' to the vitals = DRT. Variables that, in no way, can be controlled by you, the hunter. To think otherwise, is folly...

 

[ImBIllT]

My main purpose for this thread is not about CNS kills from high shoulder, neck or head shots, but lung area explosions, which can cause DRT, with the right bullet and speed... just like in Gel Test. I like the ideal of shooting light bullets really fast, and may do that, but at this moment, I think I'll shoot these 140 SST at 2889 fps from my Savage FV... and 2850 fps from my Savage Axis, which will be mainly for my elderly buddy to shoot. I think I would like the 120-130 bt, but these 140's should work as well at higher speeds. If the first deer or hog I shoot at this next week does NOT drop with a lung shot, I'll be going back to the drawing board, since my whole purpose is NOT killing critters, but dropping them with lung shots. I want all the energy and fragments to do their job inside the animal... not on the outsides. Meat is not the issue, but internal explosion is everything to me... but that's just me. thanks Guys for all your helpful information.

You’ll be hard pressed to find any bullet at any velocity that will consistently drop deer on their tracks by hitting absolutely nothing but lungs. Air, being compressible, doesn’t transmit force very well, as a result lung shots often fail to drop animals instantly regardless of how violently they expand. A lung shot simply bleeds them to death. A more violently expanding bullet will do that more quickly, and in MY experience VLDHs do that pretty quickly and MUcH faster than Nosler BTs. Nonetheless, near instant killing usually involves a hitting bone or getting near nerves. A high hit can shock the the spinal chord without you actually hitting the spine, and a low forward hit can hit or shock the autonomic nervous plexus. Hitting bone usually kills quickly, but I don’t know if it’s because the shards cause them to bleed out almost instantly or if one of them usually ends up hitting important nerve tissue. Whatever the case, you’re asking a lot for consistent DRT with purely lung shots.

 

[284winner]

Cool as those ballistic tests are to watch, deer ain't made of gel. Plus, I haven't seen many gel tests where a bullet has to break thru a rib, beforehand?
Wonder if & how the 'wound channel' would look, comparatively?
And, what if the bullet juuust clipped a rib, instead of center punching it? Would that cause the bullet to somehow shear off, or tumble, or...who knows what???

Surely, those different scenarios will affect how a particular bullet expands, or doesn't...

Just sayin, these are the variables that need accounted for, before one could hypothesize as to if 'bullet X' to the vitals = DRT. Variables that, in no way, can be controlled by you, the hunter. To think otherwise, is folly...

I personally believe that's often times the difference between two different experiences with the same bullet. One guys said his Berger HVLD destroyed everything inside the animal while the other says hardly any damage and deer went right down.

 

[CTK]

Almost every deer that I have shot behind the shoulder has gone 50 ish yards regardless of what bullet I hit it with. They have always been dead when I found them. Tracked a moving deer for 2 hours after buddy’s 15 year old blew an area almost the size of a football out of her gut. It all boils down to an appropriate bullet and good placement. The DRT/high shoulder quest (been there done that) is mostly for entertainment purposes. This said, deer seem to always run: downhill, into impenetrable brush, into a ditch, and away from the truck.

 

[284winner]

Almost every deer that I have shot behind the shoulder has gone 50 ish yards regardless of what bullet I hit it with. They have always been dead when I found them. Tracked a moving deer for 2 hours after buddy’s 15 year old blew an area almost the size of a football out of her gut. It all boils down to an appropriate bullet and good placement. The DRT/high shoulder quest (been there done that) is mostly for entertainment purposes. This said, deer seem to always run: downhill, into impenetrable brush, into a ditch, and away from the truck.

This is exactly what I'm talking about. My experience with rifle hit deer is 75% of them dropped on the spot. These are not high shoulder shots either. The ones that do not , only maybe make it maybe 25 yards and drop. While I had to track one or two beyond that 25 yards only to find them dead within 50 yards has occurred. No two people's experiences are always alike. Not with bullets or their performance or with deer after the shot.

 

[ImBIllT]

I personally believe that's often times the difference between two different experiences with the same bullet. One guys said his Berger HVLD destroyed everything inside the animal while the other says hardly any damage and deer went right down.

My first experiences with VLDHs were disappointing at best. Berger requestedthat I send them the remainder of the box for testing and sent me a box of whatever bullets I wanted in return. They told me NOT TO POINT bullets I was going to use on game and assured me that I would be satisfied with my future results. They were correct. Maybe he had some other problem, but maybe he pointed his bullets. Just a thought. My pointed VLDHs acted like FMJs, and after I quit pointing them, they leave a football sized lump of jelly inside the animal, but they penetrate some distance before that occurs instead of blowing up on the surface.

 

[CTK]

Small hijack on an already off course thread. Best powder for 7mm-08 load with 120gr bullet? For my son’s new Tika youth rifle. Have varget h4350 4895 4831. Thanks. To keep this on topic, not worried about top end speed. +-2800 will kill a deer just fine

 

[fredo]

I ran ~44gr Varget behind a 120 TSX, from 7-08. That was stout load and made 3125+ from a 22" Broughton 5C

Deer don't stop Triple Shocks...

Back to topic & speculation about vitals & DRTs, I'm looking forward to see how a 70gr TSX @ 3900 works on a deer. We shall see if my REDLINE's super dooper velocity serves to lock a deer up, via that super cool 'hydrostatic shock' mumbo jumbo? Or, will that stout copper boolit still blow thru vitals & let the deer hop a few yards on borrowed time?

Might take some video, so you guys will see for yourselves...

 

[Peebles24]

Just get a 500 S&W mag handi rifle and stay within a 200 yard shot, deer will move about 10 yards but it is all from the impact. Here in indiana, till last year we had very weird rifle rules. Went by case length and diameter. I loaded 300 grain ftx bullets over 48 gr of little gun powder. My best friend shot a 200 pound deer at 75 yard, it flipped upside down spun a 360 and went back 10 yards. Not a single internal organ intact. Aka finger of god! Now the warning... this thing is brutal to shoot worse than any 12 ga 3.5 inch slug ever known.
.243 is legal now 500 is put away, far away.