Windy PD hunting in MT

[Ironworker]

Last day of PD hunt in MT the winds kicked up hard. This year thinking of shooting 115 DTACs out of my Creedmoor . Any experience with that bullet ?

 

[BoydAllen]

Last day of PD hunt in MT the winds kicked up hard. This year thinking of shooting 115 DTACs out of my Creedmoor . Any experience with that bullet ?

A friend has done just that with a very accurate 6XC. They lacked terminal performance, so he switched to a bullet that would blow up when it hit. Years ago a friend did a lot of prairie dog shooting and early on he figured out that it is not safe to use bullets that can ricochet across the prairie for long distances. I suggest that you limit your prairie dog work to bullets that will blow up when they hit something.

One thing that friends have done to good effect is to move so that their direction of fire is more parallel with the direction of the wind.

 

[TheOtherZilla]

It was exceptionally windy here in Wyo yesterday. But then I found out it was just Utah sucking

 

[people]

Any bullet can bounce. There is only one that 100% guaranteed to not bounce. That is the one not fired. Some are worst than others but all of them can bounce.

 

[joed49]

Any bullet can bounce. There is only one that 100% guaranteed to not bounce. That is the one not fired. Some are worst than others but all of them can bounce.

Yes, but there is a difference between a match bullet and a varmint bullet. There are a lot of people that just think the only bullet to use is a match with the highest BC.

 

[Tommie]

Stick with 87 grain V-Max bullets.

 

[Ironworker]

Oh all eyes on safety . Maybe I'll just stick with 95gr TMK .

 

[people]

Yes, but there is a difference between a match bullet and a varmint bullet. There are a lot of people that just think the only bullet to use is a match with the highest BC.

Not all match bullets are built as tough as you think. Most are pretty soft. FYI a lead bullet can bounce just as easy.

 

[spaniel]

Not all match bullets are built as tough as you think. Most are pretty soft. FYI a lead bullet can bounce just as easy.

Well I'll own up to an ignorant screw-up.

Many years ago, I bought my first centerfire rifle, a 300WM, and took it out to my parents' farm to shoot. I did not have a backstop but I was shooting slightly downhill into plowed ground with a good mile and a half of empty land downrange. I shot some factory Remington Core-Lokts, then went downrange to inspect. I was able to find many of the bullets expanded within 100 yards downrange of the target. I switched to some 200gr Accubond handloads and again, after a few groups, I could find some of them expanded and laying on the ground pretty close downrange.

Then I switched to 200gr SMK handloads. My brother in law was a couple hundred yards behind me in the yard, and he immediately heard the difference. He could hear them whining downrange and ran down and told me to stop shooting after the first 5-shot group. Shortly thereafter, a neighbor from 1.75 miles away drove in and informed me that 2 bullets had passed over him while he was in his yard.

There is no such thing as a 100% guarantee. But to this day I'm not firing match bullets unless I have a firm backstop. Tipped varmint bullets are not a 100% guarantee, but there is a substantial difference. Yes, if I shoot 300 rounds in a dog town I'll hear a number I can count on one hand take off. But if that's match bullets it will be a much, much higher number.

I'd go with the 87 Vmax. They are really explosive on varmints and you won't be disappointed. I've had nearly equivalent luck with the now-discontinued 105gr AMAX. I don't know how the ELD replacement works, but I expect it is close. But given the 30% price increase, me, when I run out of AMAX, I'll shoot the VMAX at varmints. Match bullets may kill prairie dogs but just poking a hole in them, they will crawl away. Even with the AMAX, at 700 yards, the only reason I knew I killed them was a hawk came in and started eating them.

 

[BoydAllen]

I have some experience running a large gun club that has several types of competition. One thing that I can tell you for sure is that shooters that who very much want to do a particular thing can come up with rationalizations that will take your breath away, and can become quite upset when you do not buy them. My remarks about match bullets were based on multiple observations by people who started out with them and soon figured out that they were unsafe without a reliable backstop. We all would like to have the highest possible BCs and accuracy....but safety must always come first.

 

[JRS]

I suppose this means we should stop hunting with the Berger Hunting VLD line of bullets After all, they are the original Berger Match Bullet

 

[fyrewall]

The world needs a 95 grain 6mm VMax but until that happens I will cheerfully shoot the 87 VMax. I have seen the remnants of various match bullets resting on the dirt but never a VMax.

 

[people]

Well I'll own up to an ignorant screw-up.

Many years ago, I bought my first centerfire rifle, a 300WM, and took it out to my parents' farm to shoot. I did not have a backstop but I was shooting slightly downhill into plowed ground with a good mile and a half of empty land downrange. I shot some factory Remington Core-Lokts, then went downrange to inspect. I was able to find many of the bullets expanded within 100 yards downrange of the target. I switched to some 200gr Accubond handloads and again, after a few groups, I could find some of them expanded and laying on the ground pretty close downrange.

Then I switched to 200gr SMK handloads. My brother in law was a couple hundred yards behind me in the yard, and he immediately heard the difference. He could hear them whining downrange and ran down and told me to stop shooting after the first 5-shot group. Shortly thereafter, a neighbor from 1.75 miles away drove in and informed me that 2 bullets had passed over him while he was in his yard.

There is no such thing as a 100% guarantee. But to this day I'm not firing match bullets unless I have a firm backstop. Tipped varmint bullets are not a 100% guarantee, but there is a substantial difference. Yes, if I shoot 300 rounds in a dog town I'll hear a number I can count on one hand take off. But if that's match bullets it will be a much, much higher number.

I'd go with the 87 Vmax. They are really explosive on varmints and you won't be disappointed. I've had nearly equivalent luck with the now-discontinued 105gr AMAX. I don't know how the ELD replacement works, but I expect it is close. But given the 30% price increase, me, when I run out of AMAX, I'll shoot the VMAX at varmints. Match bullets may kill prairie dogs but just poking a hole in them, they will crawl away. Even with the AMAX, at 700 yards, the only reason I knew I killed them was a hawk came in and started eating them.

Very interesting. The 220gr SMK is a very soft bullet. Which is kind of odd because it was a very popular target bullet in the past. The 6mm bullets they make must be harder to handle rough throats.

 

[L.Sherm]

Last day of PD hunt in MT the winds kicked up hard.

If you get calm days in eastern MT. feel lucky.
I joke it only stops when it switchs directions.

 

[Tommie]

Once again the tired, worn-out “target bullets for hunting” argument rises from the dead. It’s like Easter every day here.

 

[BoydAllen]

No possibility of new readers? The subject of safety never goes out of date although the information seldom changes. Take an active part in running a large range that is open to the public seven days a week and you may get a better picture of the need for repetition of safety information.

 

[Ledd Slinger]

Any bullet can bounce. There is only one that 100% guaranteed to not bounce. That is the one not fired. Some are worst than others but all of them can bounce.

Yeah but that is based on a percentage. If my HP varmint bullets have a 1% or less chance of ricocheting off any target impacted (dirt, rocks, or animal) vs. 50%+ chance of a ricochet using heavy target bullets, I'm gonna choose the bullet better designed to explode and avoid ricochets. And of course always being aware of my target and beyond.

Out of 1000's of rounds fired with 34gr HP 20 cal varmint bullets, I honestly can't recall a ricochet. There may have been one or two in there, but the percentage is so low its hard to remember if it even happened. Same with my 6mm Sierra 75gr HP Varminter bullets. Can't recall ever hearing or seeing a ricochet.

Shoot at gophers on the ground with 6.5mm 140gr Berger VLD's and you can bet you'll get a ricochet. Been there done that, dont do it anymore.

 

[Ledd Slinger]

Last day of PD hunt in MT the winds kicked up hard. This year thinking of shooting 115 DTACs out of my Creedmoor . Any experience with that bullet ?

Half the fun with shooting p-dogs and gophers in the wind is learning how to make correct wind calls. It's not a competition so no big deal if you miss. Just keep shooting until you get it right. It will hone your wind shooting skills for sure.

I enjoy shooting at gophers in the wind at 100 or more yards using a 22LR because it is very challenging. Also very rewarding when you make the correct call in 20+ mph wind and drop the slow moving 22lr bullet in there on the little critter at 125 yards.

 

[people]

Yeah but that is based on a percentage. If my HP varmint bullets have a 1% or less chance of ricocheting off any target impacted (dirt, rocks, or animal) vs. 50%+ chance of a ricochet using heavy target bullets, I'm gonna choose the bullet better designed to explode and avoid ricochets. And of course always being aware of my target and beyond.

Out of 1000's of rounds fired with 34gr HP 20 cal varmint bullets, I honestly can't recall a ricochet. There may have been one or two in there, but the percentage is so low its hard to remember if it even happened. Same with my 6mm Sierra 75gr HP Varminter bullets. Can't recall ever hearing or seeing a ricochet.

Shoot at gophers on the ground with 6.5mm 140gr Berger VLD's and you can bet you'll get a ricochet. Been there done that, dont do it anymore.

You are using very made up numbers and calling it the truth. I was using some TNT bullets a bullet known for being very soft. These where not from the hard batch described below. I shot many of these down range killing a bunch of PD. My Grandpa came over and asked if I was shooting solids. That is what he is calling FMJ bullets. He then informed me that almost all of them ricocheted. Bearing in mind he was very hard of hearing I would go out on a limb and state most of them bounced. He was several hundred yds to the side. I could not hear any of them bounce. I had a similar story where he was using the 40gr nosler BT in a 223AI. I was surprised when I could see a hit. The dog would explode and then I could hear a very clear ricochet. Now using a 55gr FMJ to shoot PD yes I can hear a bunch of them bounce. It is kind of odd how you will hear some and not others.

You are 100% that you are better off using a varmint type bullet. That does not gaurentee a person the bullets will always just blow up when hitting the dirt. The first batch of TNT bullets I bought were very hard. I do not know what was wrong with them but they did not open up on anything. I shot quite a few coyotes with those bullets and they all passed through even the long way. I have sine shot hundreds of coyotes with FMJ bullets and they just do not pass through as well as that first batch of TNT. After that first batch the next batch were really TNT bullets they were soft like a TNT should.

A few years back I setup a friendly match for those of us who had 300-221, or whispers. I had two positions where the only way to get the shot was to put your rifles side hard into the ground to get under the barrier. I was shooting frangible bullets. One of these spots had a spring that made the ground kind of soft the other was hard prairie. Every frangible bullet I put into the hard ground just came apart right there. The ones that hit the soft dirt all bounced. I did set up the targets where hitting the ground was almost a certainty. Those who were using lead based bullets it did not matter they could hit the ground and get a bounce and still hit the target.

If you are really concerned about ricochets there are bullets you can shoot that will help your case. If you need to make sure there are none then there is only one option and that is the bullet not fired.

 

[Ledd Slinger]

You are using very made up numbers and calling it the truth. I was using some TNT bullets a bullet known for being very soft. These where not from the hard batch described below. I shot many of these down range killing a bunch of PD. My Grandpa came over and asked if I was shooting solids. That is what he is calling FMJ bullets. He then informed me that almost all of them ricocheted. Bearing in mind he was very hard of hearing I would go out on a limb and state most of them bounced. He was several hundred yds to the side. I could not hear any of them bounce. I had a similar story where he was using the 40gr nosler BT in a 223AI. I was surprised when I could see a hit. The dog would explode and then I could hear a very clear ricochet. Now using a 55gr FMJ to shoot PD yes I can hear a bunch of them bounce. It is kind of odd how you will hear some and not others.

You are 100% that you are better off using a varmint type bullet. That does not gaurentee a person the bullets will always just blow up when hitting the dirt. The first batch of TNT bullets I bought were very hard. I do not know what was wrong with them but they did not open up on anything. I shot quite a few coyotes with those bullets and they all passed through even the long way. I have sine shot hundreds of coyotes with FMJ bullets and they just do not pass through as well as that first batch of TNT. After that first batch the next batch were really TNT bullets they were soft like a TNT should.

A few years back I setup a friendly match for those of us who had 300-221, or whispers. I had two positions where the only way to get the shot was to put your rifles side hard into the ground to get under the barrier. I was shooting frangible bullets. One of these spots had a spring that made the ground kind of soft the other was hard prairie. Every frangible bullet I put into the hard ground just came apart right there. The ones that hit the soft dirt all bounced. I did set up the targets where hitting the ground was almost a certainty. Those who were using lead based bullets it did not matter they could hit the ground and get a bounce and still hit the target.

If you are really concerned about ricochets there are bullets you can shoot that will help your case. If you need to make sure there are none then there is only one option and that is the bullet not fired.

Not driving a vehicle also ensures you don't get in an automotive accident. Can't trip and fall on your face if you don't walk too. Lol

Nobody ever said ricochets don't occur at all with varmint bullets. Just saying a varmint bullet has a LOT less chance of skipping off the ground than the 115gr DTAC the OP is suggesting for use. Having a choice, I would recommend he stick with a varmint bullet and learn the wind hold. Still gonna have to make wind calls with a heavy target bullet. If you don't know the right wind call to make, you won't hit anything with ANY bullet