Hunting 284 Win

[marshland_max]

Hello everyone! Brand new to the forum and glad to be here.

Like the topic says I m building a "hunting" 284 Winchester on Rem 700 SA. I currently have H-S bottom metal and magazine for the rifle. (Its a re barrel project) Suggested OAL from H-S is 2.838 with a Max of 2.863 inside. I had loaded some 308 to 2.846 and the mag worked fine.

After speaking with the fellas at Berger Bullets. I should be able to use the 168 gr Classic Hunter with the bullet seated to a depth of 2.844 This would locate the ogive of the bullet 0.010” above the case mouth. I'm thinking this will work well in this magazine?

Also I have a bunch of Nosler 140 gr partions to use for loading as well.

I tried to locate R17 data for these loads but they do not exist, well at least I have not found them. The data I have found, has been for bullets seated much further out of the case than mine will be.

I am hoping you guys will chime in and help solve the starting load issue with the R17 as I have it on hand now. I also would like to hear what your thoughts are about loading for a short throat 284 and hunting style bullets.

I also have IMR4350, H4350, and H4831sc at my disposal.

Thanks for any help or advise you might be willing to give

Bob

 

[Alex Wheeler]

A 168 at that length is going to put about .550" of actual bullet shank in the neck. What I am say is the bullet is way down in the case. The 284 is not a SA cartridge IMO, especially with that short mag. You can get a wyatts bdl mag or an accurate dbm mag that you can load to 2.950 oal in. Even still there are better choices, like the SAUM. If you want to stay with a 284 I would get a long action.

 

[Cakes]

Welcome to the forum Bob! As a very passionate 284 person for both f-class and hunting I'll be the first to chime in here with some info that "might" help. The 284 died a very quick death back in the mid 60's because it was developed around a lever Model 88 or a short action. This dictated that the bullet be seated very deep as you have noted. An ogive of .010" above the case mouth is far from ideal and probably results in a compressed powder load or very close to it. Not the info you wanted and my load data wouldn't probably work for a bullet seated that deep anyway. Now if not too far into the project convert over to a long action and you'll find it to be a favorite for taking elk on down to the tiny stuff. My 284 on a long action has been my favorite hunting go-to rifle for almost a decade. Good Luck with your project! Eric in DL

 

[marshland_max]

A 168 at that length is going to put about .550" of actual bullet shank in the neck. What I am say is the bullet is way down in the case. The 284 is not a SA cartridge IMO, especially with that short mag. You can get a wyatts bdl mag or an accurate dbm mag that you can load to 2.950 oal in. Even still there are better choices, like the SAUM. If you want to stay with a 284 I would get a long action.

Hey Alex, thanks SAUM is not an option. I have most of the stuff to do a 284 on hand. Also those are Berger's calculations not mine. Supposedly the Classic Hunter was specifically designed to be used in standard magazines according to Berger they aren't as long as there other offerings.

I have considered going to a different bottom metal, but since I had the bottom metal from H-S already I was hoping to make that work before doing that.

Thanks

 

[marshland_max]

Welcome to the forum Bob! As a very passionate 284 person for both f-class and hunting I'll be the first to chime in here with some info that "might" help. The 284 died a very quick death back in the mid 60's because it was developed around a lever Model 88 or a short action. This dictated that the bullet be seated very deep as you have noted. An ogive of .010" above the case mouth is far from ideal and probably results in a compressed powder load or very close to it. Not the info you wanted and my load data wouldn't probably work for a bullet seated that deep anyway. Now if not too far into the project convert over to a long action and you'll find it to be a favorite for taking elk on down to the tiny stuff. My 284 on a long action has been my favorite hunting go-to rifle for almost a decade. Good Luck with your project! Eric in DL

Thanks Eric, yup I have read a lot of what you just said in my research. Yeah the only long action I have available it a ruger hawkeye and I'd rather not mess with it. All my other stuff is SA and I m left handed soooo coming up with another action is just another added expense lol. I have not actually run a reamer into this new barrel yet. I was hoping to do a 284, but now I m second guessing my self maybe 7mm-08 or 7mm-08 AI. Really wanted a 500 yard do all.

 

[Cakes]

My 2nd go-to hunting rig is a 7-08 that will become a 7-08 AI when it is time for a rebarrel. With 140's it'll become your "do it all" for most critters. IMO. Have fun! Eric in DL

 

[oldroper]

Hello everyone! Brand new to the forum and glad to be here.

Like the topic says I m building a "hunting" 284 Winchester on Rem 700 SA. I currently have H-S bottom metal and magazine for the rifle. (Its a re barrel project) Suggested OAL from H-S is 2.838 with a Max of 2.863 inside. I had loaded some 308 to 2.846 and the mag worked fine.

After speaking with the fellas at Berger Bullets. I should be able to use the 168 gr Classic Hunter with the bullet seated to a depth of 2.844 This would locate the ogive of the bullet 0.010” above the case mouth. I'm thinking this will work well in this magazine?

Also I have a bunch of Nosler 140 gr partions to use for loading as well.

I tried to locate R17 data for these loads but they do not exist, well at least I have not found them. The data I have found, has been for bullets seated much further out of the case than mine will be.

I am hoping you guys will chime in and help solve the starting load issue with the R17 as I have it on hand now. I also would like to hear what your thoughts are about loading for a short throat 284 and hunting style bullets.

I also have IMR4350, H4350, and H4831sc at my disposal.

Thanks for any help or advise you might be willing to give

Bob

My 284 is build long action.

This is good article from this site about short action 284.


http://www.6mmbr.com/gunweek095.html

 

[Preacher]

I've been shooting a rear grip XP-100 chambered for the 284 with 140 Ballistic tips for years, and have piled up a lot of deer with it..
Other than not being able to remove a loaded round the short XP action has never been a problem..
Never seen a need for more bullet weight than the 140's....

 

[normmatzen]

Bob,

I, too, shoot a 284 WIN for F Class.

I think you would be way ahead of the game by using a 130-140 gr bullet. In a 284 WIN case that should easily get you up close to 7REM Mag. The energy will be more than enough to Kill any game in North America decisively! The long range ability should still be adequate.
The short, light bullets also make loading short a little bit easier.

 

[marshland_max]

Thanks everyone! Decided to scrap the 284 project for a hunting rifle. Picked up a Remington 700 SPS 7mm Mag that I can strip down and do a semi custom job on. I think after hearing opinions and talking it over the 7mm Rem mag just makes more sense.

 

[Dubbo]

I don't blame you for going in a different direction. I also wanted a 284 on a SA for hunting but went with a SAUM instead.

 

[marshland_max]

I don't blame you for going in a different direction. I also wanted a 284 on a SA for hunting but went with a SAUM instead.

It just wasn't sitting with me well that everyone, including my gunsmith was like hmmm "sure you ant to do this?" That more or less sealed the deal.

 

[284winner]

It just wasn't sitting with me well that everyone, including my gunsmith was like hmmm "sure you ant to do this?" That more or less sealed the deal.

It's too bad you scrapped that project. I built a SA 284 win and used the accurate mag magazines. I can get 2.975 using Berger 168s or Amax 162s. Using RL17 I get over 3000 fps easily without compressing my loads and very good accuracy. 53 grains of RL17 using a 25" barrel. These number exceed factory 7mm mag ballistic with 160 Nosler partition ammo. Less powder, less recoil and better performance. Any questions ? Don't believe that a short action will not give you the performance you desire. It will not give you long action performance with heavier bullets such as 180/195s. Don't even think about that option. It will give all the performance needed from a 160-168 bullet. It took me building one to prove that. Good luck.

 

[Zero333]

Cartridge : .284 Win.
Bullet : .284, 168, Berger Hunt Hybrid ( Classic Hunter ) #28570
Useable Case Capaci: 56.082 grain H2O = 3.641 cm³
Cartridge O.A.L. L6: 2.844 inch = 72.24 mm
Barrel Length : 24.0 inch = 609.6 mm
Powder : Alliant Reloder-17

Predicted data by increasing and decreasing the given charge,
incremented in steps of 2.0% of nominal charge.
CAUTION: Figures exceed maximum and minimum recommended loads !

Step Fill. Charge Vel. Energy Pmax Pmuz Prop.Burnt B_Time
% % Grains fps ft.lbs psi psi % ms

-20.0 76 41.04 2339 2041 32939 8758 98.7 1.586
-18.0 78 42.07 2393 2137 35140 8943 99.3 1.546
-16.0 79 43.09 2447 2233 37488 9111 99.6 1.506
-14.0 81 44.12 2500 2331 39991 9259 99.9 1.460
-12.0 83 45.14 2553 2431 42663 9386 100.0 1.418
-10.0 85 46.17 2605 2531 45514 9497 100.0 1.376
-08.0 87 47.20 2656 2631 48560 9605 100.0 1.336
-06.0 89 48.22 2707 2733 51816 9709 100.0 1.298
-04.0 91 49.25 2757 2835 55299 9812 100.0 1.261 ! Near Maximum !
-02.0 93 50.27 2806 2938 59025 9911 100.0 1.226 ! Near Maximum !
+00.0 95 51.30 2856 3042 63013 10008 100.0 1.192 ! Near Maximum !
+02.0 97 52.33 2905 3147 67289 10102 100.0 1.159 !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
+04.0 98 53.35 2953 3253 71835 10193 100.0 1.128 !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
+06.0 100 54.38 3002 3361 76691 10280 100.0 1.097 !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!

 

[Zero333]

Cartridge : .284 Win.
Bullet : .284, 168, Berger Hunt Hybrid #28570
Useable Case Capaci: 56.082 grain H2O = 3.641 cm³
Cartridge O.A.L. L6: 2.844 inch = 72.24 mm
Barrel Length : 24.0 inch = 609.6 mm
Powder : IMR 4350

Predicted data by increasing and decreasing the given charge,
incremented in steps of 2.0% of nominal charge.
CAUTION: Figures exceed maximum and minimum recommended loads !

Step Fill. Charge Vel. Energy Pmax Pmuz Prop.Burnt B_Time
% % Grains fps ft.lbs psi psi % ms

-20.0 79 40.80 2257 1900 34002 7970 93.4 1.590
-18.0 81 41.82 2309 1989 36180 8195 94.4 1.550
-16.0 83 42.84 2361 2079 38478 8411 95.3 1.508
-14.0 85 43.86 2413 2171 40916 8619 96.1 1.464
-12.0 87 44.88 2464 2265 43502 8817 96.8 1.423
-10.0 89 45.90 2516 2361 46245 9005 97.5 1.383
-08.0 91 46.92 2567 2458 49156 9181 98.1 1.344
-06.0 93 47.94 2618 2557 52246 9346 98.6 1.307
-04.0 95 48.96 2669 2657 55527 9498 99.0 1.272 ! Near Maximum !
-02.0 97 49.98 2719 2758 59014 9637 99.4 1.237 ! Near Maximum !
+00.0 99 51.00 2769 2861 62721 9763 99.7 1.204 ! Near Maximum !
+02.0 101 52.02 2819 2965 66666 9874 99.8 1.172 !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
+04.0 103 53.04 2869 3070 70866 9970 100.0 1.141 !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
+06.0 105 54.06 2918 3176 75342 10052 100.0 1.112 !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!

 

[Zero333]

Cartridge : .284 Win.
Bullet : .284, 168, Berger Hunt Hybrid #28570
Useable Case Capaci: 56.082 grain H2O = 3.641 cm³
Cartridge O.A.L. L6: 2.844 inch = 72.24 mm
Barrel Length : 24.0 inch = 609.6 mm
Powder : Hodgdon H-4350

Predicted data by increasing and decreasing the given charge,
incremented in steps of 2.0% of nominal charge.
CAUTION: Figures exceed maximum and minimum recommended loads !

Step Fill. Charge Vel. Energy Pmax Pmuz Prop.Burnt B_Time
% % Grains fps ft.lbs psi psi % ms

-20.0 81 40.88 2256 1898 33940 7973 93.2 1.591
-18.0 83 41.90 2308 1987 36121 8200 94.2 1.551
-16.0 85 42.92 2360 2078 38419 8418 95.1 1.509
-14.0 87 43.95 2412 2170 40857 8627 95.9 1.465
-12.0 89 44.97 2464 2264 43443 8826 96.7 1.424
-10.0 91 45.99 2515 2360 46187 9016 97.4 1.383
-08.0 93 47.01 2567 2457 49100 9194 98.0 1.345
-06.0 95 48.03 2618 2556 52192 9360 98.5 1.308
-04.0 97 49.06 2669 2657 55477 9514 99.0 1.272 ! Near Maximum !
-02.0 99 50.08 2719 2758 58968 9655 99.3 1.238 ! Near Maximum !
+00.0 101 51.10 2770 2861 62681 9783 99.6 1.204 ! Near Maximum !
+02.0 103 52.12 2820 2966 66632 9896 99.8 1.172 !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
+04.0 105 53.14 2869 3071 70840 9994 99.9 1.141 !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
+06.0 107 54.17 2919 3178 75327 10077 100.0 1.112 !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!

 

[Zero333]

Cartridge : .284 Win.
Bullet : .284, 168, Berger Hunt Hybrid #28570
Useable Case Capaci: 56.082 grain H2O = 3.641 cm³
Cartridge O.A.L. L6: 2.844 inch = 72.24 mm
Barrel Length : 24.0 inch = 609.6 mm
Powder : Hodgdon H-4831 SC

Predicted data by increasing and decreasing the given charge,
incremented in steps of 2.0% of nominal charge.
CAUTION: Figures exceed maximum and minimum recommended loads !

Step Fill. Charge Vel. Energy Pmax Pmuz Prop.Burnt B_Time
% % Grains fps ft.lbs psi psi % ms

-20.0 84 43.92 2228 1851 31679 8179 87.4 1.620
-18.0 86 45.02 2285 1948 33887 8455 88.7 1.576
-16.0 88 46.12 2343 2047 36256 8725 90.0 1.533
-14.0 90 47.21 2401 2150 38800 8987 91.3 1.486
-12.0 92 48.31 2459 2255 41535 9240 92.4 1.439
-10.0 95 49.41 2517 2364 44477 9483 93.5 1.393
-08.0 97 50.51 2576 2476 47647 9715 94.5 1.350
-06.0 99 51.61 2635 2590 51066 9934 95.4 1.308
-04.0 101 52.70 2694 2707 54758 10140 96.3 1.267 ! Near Maximum !
-02.0 103 53.80 2753 2828 58751 10332 97.1 1.227 ! Near Maximum !
+00.0 105 54.90 2812 2951 63076 10507 97.8 1.190 ! Near Maximum !
+02.0 107 56.00 2872 3076 67771 10666 98.4 1.153 !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
+04.0 109 57.10 2931 3205 72874 10806 98.9 1.117 !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
+06.0 111 58.19 2991 3336 78422 10927 99.3 1.083 !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!

 

[Zero333]

Digest the Quickload data with some salt.

Reduce and work up safely.

The difference between the 8.440" coal data that I posted and 8.630" coal is roughly an additional 0.1 gr for the longer coal to generate the same pressure.
In other words. There is no real world difference.

 

[Zero333]

To save some space on this thread... I ran the same powders with Nosler 140 gr Partition @ 2.863" coal.
Results came back showing the need to up the charge weight 3.0 gr over the 168 gr Berger data to generate the same pressures.

 

[284winner]

H4350 & H4831 did not achieve nearly the velocities as the RL17 in my gun. Excellent accuracy which Trump's speed but I'm getting the same accuracy but with much more speed. In my particular setup I loaded as much as 54.1 grains before noticing any signs telling me I'm getting too hot. 52.4-53.0 was the spot that performed best with no signs of any pressure. Looking at the quick load data, it appears those numbers are dangerous. As we all know, working up slowly is important. These were my results and in a short action 284 win. With RL17 and in my long action platform, I can achieve that same 3000 fps velocity with 180s and again with no pressure signs. The barrel is however 28".