Case annealing (which looks correct)

[ToddKS]

I recently picked up a Bench Source case annealer and am hoping to get some feedback on run times. The picture is of 223 Lake City brass. On the top of the case is a stripe of 650 degree tempilaq (yellow) and a stripe of 700 degree tempilaq (tan). Below that is 450 degree tempilaq.

Run time were 2.4, 2.6, 2.8, and 3.0 seconds left to right. The only case that showed any signs on the 450 was the far right case at 1.060 or so up from the base of the case.

My question is which one looks like it would be properly annealed? How far down the case is 450 acceptable?

Feedback would be appreciated.

 

[243winxb]

Clean brass and take another photo.

 

[madmixerman]

I do 6br, various neck thickness's. I usually am around 4 to 4.6 seconds depending on thickness's using twin torches.

 

[dedogs]

Clean brass and take another photo.

+1

 

[dedogs]

Feedback would be appreciated

Can't give any meaningful feed back because we cant see through all the crud left on the necks. The one on the right end looks over-annealed to me. dedogs

 

[BoydAllen]

We set up a two torch annealer that paused the cases in the flame. We started out with thin stripes of 300, 400, and 500 degree from shoulder to head, all on one test case. What we figured out was that we could use the 500 degree and set the time to burn it down to where Lapua brass's annealing colors are. We reused the same case, cleaning it and repainting the Tempilaq for each test. Our first run had a little less annealing than we wanted so we increased a half second and were there, based on uniformity of shoulder bump. The colors looked OK on both. This did not leave the necks too soft for magazine use in a hunting rifle, but it did make shoulder bump a lot more uniform. There was a flare off of the end of the neck at the exact instant that the cases advanced out of the flames.

 

[ToddKS]

We set up a two torch annealer that paused the cases in the flame. We started out with thin stripes of 300, 400, and 500 degree from shoulder to head, all on one test case. What we figured out was that we could use the 500 degree and set the time to burn it down to where Lapua brass's annealing colors are. We reused the same case, cleaning it and repainting the Tempilaq for each test. Our first run had a little less annealing than we wanted so we increased a half second and were there, based on uniformity of shoulder bump. The colors looked OK on both. This did not leave the necks too soft for magazine use in a hunting rifle, but it did make shoulder bump a lot more uniform. There was a flare off of the end of the neck at the exact instant that the cases advanced out of the flames.

Thank you. That is very helpful.

 

[ToddKS]

I don't think I was even close. Here are pictures marked with the time.

 

[ToddKS]

Here is how far down the case it got to 450 at some different times..

 

[ToddKS]

Here is how far down the case it got to 700 at some different times.

 

[Clancy]

Doing it by looks alone is a great way to lose an eyeball at the range.

Watch the Primal Rights video on annealing, and just double check that with tempilaq and a spring back test with small vise grips.

Also, your run time will vary every time you use the machine.

 

[Clancy]

Even 4.0 is too long. Way too long.

 

[243winxb]

flare off of the end of the neck

Zinc?

Annealing Minimum 800 F
Annealing Maximum 1400F

http://www.concast.com/c26000.php

Love these annealing threads. Seems near impossible to get it right.

 

[Cecil S.]

Toddks , I have the same setup (Bench Source). I am new to this but I will share some tips I have. Try not to let the flame touch the Tempilaq (it makes a mess) , just a stripe in the area you wish to monitor. Pay attention to your torch position. I found the blue tip of the flames converging in the neck shoulder area to be best for even heat distribution. I annealed LC 308 my first time, this is very thick brass but when the torch heads are in the right location a 3 second dwell time is all it took. Again the "BLUE" part of the flame is what you want. I think with less Tempilaq you will see the heat transfer to the case. Some guys anneal in the dark to watch the heat transfer , my next run I will be trying this method. Stay at it you will get it.

 

[shoot4fun]

In the beginning I found it all too easy to put way too much Tempilaq on the case. That skews what you're looking for. I finally quit using Tempilaq at all and, upon doing so, the entire process became easier to do. I anneal in not total but near darkness. That is the best way i've found to get my flame close to the same each time I anneal. I watch the flame and the case. If the flame flashes yellow I am going too long and burning off some of the metals in the composition of the brass. If the inside of the neck glows orange I've gone too long. What I want to see is good steady and well directed flame that burns blue and the case rotates out of the flame with just a slight hint of dull color.
One thing I found was that while you are able to build some data on time in the flame you can use it only as a guide. The next time thru with the same brass you may have a cooler of hotter flame temp or other factors that will change the time the brass takes to anneal properly.
Remember that you're way ahead of the game by starting a little with lower time and working up.
I do not give out "seconds in the flame" in these threads. They may very well not be valid for your process.

 

[chuckshooter]

I set up my bench source machine and then turn off the lights to fine tune the time. after 30 years of Annealing, I have a good idea of temp transfer. I always keep some damaged cases around for testing crush pressure. I wasted my money on the tempilac also, it's not supposed to be used in the direct flame, I can't get it inside .20 cal cases and look at the shelf life, I will not buy anymore. most of my case are small, so for me less than 4 seconds, hornet case are 2.5 seconds and that is with two torches with the tip of the blue just about to touch, the manual says about 1/4 inch gap if I remember right. i did over anneal some 6mm ackley once and my groups opened up quite a bit. I worked them through the dies about four times and they seamed to be ok. work hardened them back , I guess.. although I'm sure someone on this site will say you are not supposed to that. 6mmAI brass can be hard to come by

 

[Jdne5b]

Even 4.0 is too long. Way too long.

You have zero clue if thats too long for his cases without knowing how high his torches are set, if there are 2 torches, or how close they are.

 

[Clancy]

You have zero clue if thats too long for his cases without knowing how high his torches are set, if there are 2 torches, or how close they are.

Before your ignorance gets someone injured, have a look at the 450 tempilaq in his picture for four seconds. That gives me a pretty damn good idea how he's set up and I can say with complete certainty that is way too hot. (That is, assuming the torches are pointed at the neck shoulder jct.)

 

[Papa Charlie]

I built my own annealer, I have consistent brass ever time. Here is a short video of it in operation. I can adjust the time under the torch and the feed rate as well. Nice thing is, it is very repeatable. I plan to build an Induction Annealer sometime in the future but for now, this one is doing just fine. Besides, I have a lot of research to do on induction heaters.

 

[ToddKS]

Before your ignorance gets someone injured, have a look at the 450 tempilaq in his picture for four seconds. That gives me a pretty damn good idea how he's set up and I can say with complete certainty that is way too hot. (That is, assuming the torches are pointed at the neck shoulder jct.)

I am using two torches and they are indeed pointed at the neck/shoulder junction.