Over-sized carbide button

[maxwatt]

I swapped out the original button in my forster fl sizer die for a carbide one and that made the neck a tiiinyyy bit bigger and now the case don't grip the bullet enough.
Is there any way I can take a thousand or half off its diameter? I only have simple hand tools like drill and dremmel.

 

[riverwolf1]

No, the only thing you can do at this point is put the old expander button back on an run the brass back through the sizing process! If the cases are already primed remove the decapping pin and complete the resizing process! Most if not all that reload for shooting matches NEVER use an expander button, we use bushing dies, with interchangeable bushings so we can control neck tension. You don't need to explain why you went to a larger expander button, however if you want to share your thoughts about why I would appreciate knowing your reasoning.

Thx
Gary Vanlier

 

[maxwatt]

The point of the carbide button was not having to lube and therefore not wash/dry and so on......
I emailed the maker of the button and explained the situation and gave measures of the button. They answered "Okey, looks like it's oversized. We'll send you a new one." great, but when the new button arrived it was EXACTLY the same size.
I tried 1200 wet paper. That only dulled the surface. Then I tried pre-pollish and then pollish on dremmel. That did nothing.
Then 0.5micron diamond pollish paste and dremmel. That gave it a mirror Finnish, but still just as big.
I am not going to put all of heaven and earth in motion to fix this if there is no easy fix. I realise a might just accept that this die/button/bullet combination does not work.
This only happens with one bullet I shoot in this caliber.

 

[riverwolf1]

Lol, yeah sometimes I wonder about who these company's use to man their customer service phones. I had to call hornady3 times to get the right die part, they did not charge me for the parts, but it was funny because I gave them the actual number off the custom die package! Carbide is real hard material, and is prone to breaking if dropped so thats why you couldn't get the diameter reduced. Thanks for responding back.

Gary

 

[Fotheringill]

First step would be to call Forster and explain the issue again.

Ask if they have pre ground undersized buttons.

If no satisfaction, they are not the only kids on the block.

If you bought from Brownell's, return it for refund.

 

[maxwatt]

It's not forster who made it. Only the die is forster. The original forster button is smaller and works just fine.
The customer service answered: I will have our technician check one before sending it out to you.
So I guess they are all this size.
Maybe 40 micron diamond lapping compound and polishing tool can work?

 

[alb]

There aren't that many things harder than carbide:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mohs_scale_of_mineral_hardness

I'd think that diamond lapping compound would be practically speaking the only choice.

 

[ireload2]

Tungsten carbide is ground to size and shape all the time using a green silicon carbide wheel.
Look for information on how to grind carbide.
I ran a lathe quite a bit while in college and had to grind a lot of 3/8 square Carboloy brazed tool bits.
We used a silicon carbide wheel. To dress the carbide tool to a clean edge we used greenish gray stones that came in a blue plastic cover from Carboloy. I have no idea why you cannot cut down your expander ball but you may need to use more pressure and either water or oil to help the cutting action. You can find these stones for sale on ebay. Your local machine shop supply house probably has something similar. You can also call a professional tool and cutter grinding shops and they might recommend some thing for you. They can also grind the ball down but it might cost $25 to $75.
They can probably make new ones to you design too, but the set up costs will make your expander cost $100 or more.

Since companies like Redding are not carbide manufactures or grinders they probably buy those buttons from a contract grinding house. Then they double or triple their buying price when they mark it up for retail sales.

 

[memilanuk]

I think Whidden dies offer custom sized buttons... might check and see if they are interchangeable with your dies.

 

[ridgeway]

Just need a cylindrical grinder and a diamond wheel. Lots of handwork after to get a super fine finish...

 

[L.Sherm]

Yes Whiddens make expander kits too. If your just after one size I would just call carrie at Whiddens and see if they can just get you what you want instead of trying to polish down that would be my last resort

 

[gotcha]

Another alternative would be to remove the expander from you Forster die and use a Mandrel die to size the neck to your spec. This could be your best bang for the buck. ....... Just sayin'

 

[wholman]

I took Joe R advice in another thread and purchased that
mandrel die it has really helped my bullet seating.

 

[T-shooter]

The point of the carbide button was not having to lube and therefore not wash/dry and so on......
I emailed the maker of the button and explained the situation and gave measures of the button. They answered "Okey, looks like it's oversized. We'll send you a new one." great, but when the new button arrived it was EXACTLY the same size.
I tried 1200 wet paper. That only dulled the surface. Then I tried pre-pollish and then pollish on dremmel. That did nothing.
Then 0.5micron diamond pollish paste and dremmel. That gave it a mirror Finnish, but still just as big.
I am not going to put all of heaven and earth in motion to fix this if there is no easy fix. I realise a might just accept that this die/button/bullet combination does not work.
This only happens with one bullet I shoot in this caliber.

You could use the standard button (available in different sizes from Forster) and lube the inside of the necks with Imperial dry lube (graphite based). You don't have to clean it off and it helps in the seating process.

 

[JLT]

Here's what you need. A dedicated die that will expand the necks of your brass to your exact specifications so that you can get the exact amount of neck tension that you want. The mandrels are actually Vermont Gage pin gages that sell on Amazon for $3

Joe


View attachment 1018822

View attachment 1018823

The man that created this one for me is Kenny Porter of Porter Precision Products (P3) and his email is kennethp@portersprecisionproducts.com

I made a similar one a couple of months ago and they do bring a great deal of flexibility to the table. Testing different tensions has reduced group size substantially in many cases. Downside is I now have a drawer full of gage pins. I load .20, .22, 6mm, .25, 6.5mm, 7mm, .30 and .338 calibers. It has tested my organizational skills.

 

[ireload2]

You might buying a set of Chinese pins that come in a case. Much easier to keep organized plus a full set gives you the ability to check almost any small bore.

I made a similar one a couple of months ago and they do bring a great deal of flexibility to the table. Testing different tensions has reduced group size substantially in many cases. Downside is I now have a drawer full of gage pins. I load .20, .22, 6mm, .25, 6.5mm, 7mm, .30 and .338 calibers. It has tested my organizational skills.

 

[JLT]

You might buying a set of Chinese pins that come in a case. Much easier to keep organized plus a full set gives you the ability to check almost any small bore.

I thought about that. I ended up drilling a Delrin block cut to fit one of my drawers and I used a Sharpie to label the pin diameters. I'm sure experience in the future will reveal the flaw in my thinking, however. I may very well end up with a full set.

 

[Steve morgan]

It's not forster who made it. Only the die is forster. The original forster button is smaller and works just fine.
The customer service answered: I will have our technician check one before sending it out to you.
So I guess they are all this size.
Maybe 40 micron diamond lapping compound and polishing tool can work?

Find a shop that does cutting tool regrinding . They should be able to grind it down in size

 

[butchlambert]

This thread has confused me. If it is not sizing enough, how in the 'ell will grinding metal off help? Maybe your carbide button is right and the Forster is not as marked. You are guessing.

 

[maxwatt]

This thread has confused me. If it is not sizing enough, how in the 'ell will grinding metal off help? Maybe your carbide button is right and the Forster is not as marked. You are guessing.

The die is OK, the original button is OK and the aftermarket carbide button is OK, just a tad too big, giving me to little neck grip on the bullet. I don't want no badmouth the button maker since they didn't really do anything wrong. It's just that in this button/die/bullet combination, it is half a thou or so big.
I ordered 40micron diamond lapping past for just a few bucks on eBay and will try and see if that helps. Will post back here with results. Might take a while.