Still cant figure out my headspace.....FL sizing Die Set-up

[jerseyjoe]

Dear Lord

The word "headspace" must be like a dog whistle for Mr. Guffey

 

[Richard Coody]

Fully fireformed.brass will certainly tell you what the headspace is. Headspace is kind of a mute point with experienced reloaders. As long as it isn't so excessive that it causes case head separation on the first firing. Saami specs no longer have any validity once you have fully fireformed brass.

You use a headspace gauge on fully fireformed brass, and it isn't fully fireformed until all the cases in that group have the same measurement, and bump that shoulder no more than 1 or 2 thousands. If you size to saami or some case gauge your brass won't last for $&!.

As for OAL. Use your stoney point and find the lands. That is.your max unless you are limited to mag. Length. Just remember you must measure with each bullet type you use with the stoney point. No two bullet types will have the same measurement

SAAMI is about as meaningless as MIL SPEC.

Your headspace is just that. Yours for your barrel. Learn from this.

Guffey is very entertaining but he sure can confuse an issue.

 

[expiper]

I usually head for the range and then suddenly find my self spaced out,,,must be the datum line,,,Roger

 

[MoneyWaster]

For all the time , money and gadgets you have ,dig a little deeper and buy a headspace gauge . Stop chasing your tail , I'd full length size all brass or resize enough to close easily . Trust your smith . If he said it was within specs and you didn't specify that you wanted a min chamber , he did you a big favor by redoing his work .
Your reloading procedures need some guidance and I don't mean via Internet videos or answers .

Gqmac, I don't disagree. I'm ordering a headspace gauge tonight. Seems to be the only real way of knowing exactly what I'm trying to achieve. I appreciate your guidance.

 

[MoneyWaster]

For all the time , money and gadgets you have ,dig a little deeper and buy a headspace gauge . Stop chasing your tail , I'd full length size all brass or resize enough to close easily . Trust your smith . If he said it was within specs and you didn't specify that you wanted a min chamber , he did you a big favor by redoing his work .
Your reloading procedures need some guidance and I don't mean via Internet videos or answers .

I believe you are referring to this: https://www.midwayusa.com/product/477756/rcbs-precision-mic-223-Remington

 

[Richard Coody]

I believe you are referring to this: https://www.midwayusa.com/product/477756/rcbs-precision-mic-223-Remington

Nope

This one

https://ads.midwayusa.com/product/4...nV0Rd1A9TalS3hvi76KbURSyiAeeR3mRoCMY4QAvD_BwE

 

[ireload2]

No one asked you but I guess you would be helpless if you had 15 rifles that fired the same round.
Whether or not you know enough to understand, there are sound reasons for engineering standards. Some people and governments own more than one rifle in a particular caliber and they need ammo to fit all of them all the time. Your "made to fit" each rifle loading technique will not get it done in a fashion suitable for combat logistics.

I don't really care!

 

[hoz53]

I don't really care!

i think that answer by ireload was meant for guffey.

 

[Richard Coody]

No one asked you but I guess you would be helpless if you had 15 rifles that fired the same round.
Whether or not you know enough to understand, there are sound reasons for engineering standards. Some people and governments own more than one rifle in a particular caliber and they need ammo to fit all of them all the time. Your "made to fit" each rifle loading technique will not get it done in a fashion suitable for combat logistics.

I don't do combat. Military rounds are only made for one firing. Really they same could be said for any production ammo. It is made.small to fit any chamber. Not a very good.practice for.reloading.

I have separate brass and dies for each rifle.would never think of mixing them up.

 

[dsculley]

To the OP, did you deprime the cases before you measured them? If not that is a large part of your variance. This should not be that hard. When I was forming my 6.5x47 brass to have my sizing dies made i just tapped a neck bushing over the neck with a hammer, removed it with a vice grip pliers then loaded the brass and fired it. I fired 3 pieces of brass 3 times. Measured after depriming with a Hornady comparator there was less than .001 variance. I first made the mistake of measuring before depriming and there was about .005 variance.

Dennis

 

[hogpatrol]

Nope

This one

https://ads.midwayusa.com/product/479704/hornady-lock-n-load-headspace-gauge-5-bushing-set-with-comparator?cm_mmc=ps_google-_-google-_-GS_Tools_Jigs_Fixtures_Beta_G-_-hornady headspace gauge&gclid=CjwKCAjw-ezKBRAGEiwAu-_-LGMGcZuO1PZF91JefrgqCDnV0Rd1A9TalS3hvi76KbURSyiAeeR3mRoCMY4QAvD_BwE

Actually, this one.

https://www.midwayusa.com/product/345223/forster-headspace-go-gauge-223-remington

 

[T-shooter]

The case does not have head space, I wonder what it is reloaders do not understand about the chamber, when I cut a chamber I know the length of the chamber from the datum/shoulder to the bolt face. A reloader with a good understanding of reloading should know the length of the chamber from the datum/shoulder to the bolt face before they leave for the range. And then there are fire formers, I form first then fire.

F. Guffey

I understand about a case. May be a poor choice of words. Many reloaders may not have had the chamber cut or may not know the actual headspace in the chamber. I do have and use go/no-go headspace gauges. Again, a lot of people don't have them. As far as measuring from a fireformed case. I just had a slight overpressure incident when I had a harder bolt lift and a slightly stuck case. This one measured just .001" longer than the rest of them I set my F/L die to set the shoulder no more than .001" under the average fired case.

 

[Prose]

Any go gauge is going to fit into this guys chamber, and not tell him much. If we are concerned about excessive headspace, he should probably get a no go or field gauge that can actually determine if the length is over. Still, he's chasing a symptom without addressing the disease.

Anyone live near the OP? Some hands on guidance would be good as the issue can create a dangerous situation.

A second set of eyes would be helpful. OP sounds pretty reasonable and knowledgable though. How does the gun do with factory ammo? There is a million possibilities here (cam-over?) and actually watching the reloading practice would pay dividends over the internet. I do about 10,000 rounds a year and I still muff it up all the time. If this is his first go, and he's having a serious issue, what I would recommend is a mentor. Fguffey?

 

[Richard Coody]

Actually, this one.

https://www.midwayusa.com/product/345223/forster-headspace-go-gauge-223-remington

Negatory

He needs.to measure.his.brass not.headspace his.rifle.

if he wants.to check and see if his headspace.is excessive he needs the no go or.better yet the field gauge

 

[Ggmac]

I believe you are referring to this: https://www.midwayusa.com/product/477756/rcbs-precision-mic-223-Remington

Yes that's the one
Brownells , midway , and ptg sells them . Go /no go gauges .
Thanks Richard !
His brass is going to be a result of his rifles headspace , if there's no problem there then it all boils down to reload procedure .
Just my belief that you need to know your starting point is OK . Then once he is sure of that., he can find the reason for his problem .

 

[Richard Coody]

Yes that's the one
Brownells , midway , and ptg sells them . Go /no go gauges .
Thanks Richard !

But at this point your chamber headspace is what it is. So what if it is.a.bit of a wildcat. Just make your brass to fit your chamber.

My bet is the bolt will close.on the go and won't on the.no go which is really SAMMI max. For.sure.it won't close on the field.

 

[hogpatrol]

Negatory

He needs.to measure.his.brass not.headspace his.rifle.

if he wants.to check and see if his headspace.is excessive he needs the no go or.better yet the field gauge[/QUOTE

I'll clarify. He needs both the go and no go gauge. If the no go gauge goes, he's got his problem. Measuring brass is a hit or miss situation. If the chamber is too long headspace wise and his loads are mild, the brass may not fireform and give an accurate measurement. In any event, with new brass I would not put any faith in measuring it until it's been fired two or three times. The no go or field gauge will tell all though.

 

[Ggmac]

But at this point your chamber headspace is what it is. So what if it is.a.bit of a wildcat. Just make your brass to fit your chamber.

My bet is the bolt will close.on the go and won't on the.no go which is really SAMMI max. For.sure.it won't close on the field.

Yes , I understand and agree . Sometimes we get an idea in our head and must learn for ourselves that our procedure is wrong not the rifle . That's all I'm saying , he's already taken it back to his smith once and still is having same problem .

 

[MoneyWaster]

To the OP, did you deprime the cases before you measured them? If not that is a large part of your variance. This should not be that hard. When I was forming my 6.5x47 brass to have my sizing dies made i just tapped a neck bushing over the neck with a hammer, removed it with a vice grip pliers then loaded the brass and fired it. I fired 3 pieces of brass 3 times. Measured after depriming with a Hornady comparator there was less than .001 variance. I first made the mistake of measuring before depriming and there was about .005 variance.

Dennis

Hey Dennis, yes I did deprime first. I use a Lee universal deprimer, and then a Redding busing die with the expander ball removed.

 

[MoneyWaster]

Yes , I understand and agree . Sometimes we get an idea in our head and must learn for ourselves that our procedure is wrong not the rifle . That's all I'm saying , he's already taken it back to his smith once and still is having same problem .

To be honest, when I initially set up to reload for my 223 I adjusted the FL sizing die such that the bottom of the die just touched the shell holder at the end of the stroke. This has always worked for me with my other rifles and I didn't think twice about it. It was only after I got the case/head separation that I looked hard at what I was doing. Once I started measuring fired cases from the base to the shoulder datum with a comparator did I find that there was significant variance in fired cases (once fired new cases). That is what led me to where I am now; trying the determine the actual depth of my chamber from the face of the bolt to the datum of the shoulder. That is why ultimately I decided to take the longest case and adjusted my FL die to bump it by 0.001". I ran all of my brass through this set-up and will load them up to determine if I did indeed get the die adjusted correctly. The FL sized long case did chamber and extract without any issue, so I should be close. Only subsequent firing and measuring will determine if I got it right.