Lee "collet dies"??

[NorCalMikie]

Not fond of Lee dies BUT, maybe in this application and I know nothing about the collet dies.
22 TCM necked down to 20 caliber.
Are the internal parts of the collet dies replacable? Can you swap parts one for the other?
Tried Hornady for a two die "bushing die" but ended up with a 3 die set that wouldn't work for my application. (sent it back) Looks like the two die set arn't available.
Could be a matter of length. The TCM is a shorty. Same shoulder as the .223. Is the collet die a full length sizer? Ideas? Opinions? Got a note into Lee but it never hurts to have first hand user info. Thanks, Mike.

 

[spife7980]

Is the collet die a full length sizer?

Nope, it is a collet die. Its the neck sizing operation and doesnt touch the rest of the case. You will still need a body die used in conjunction with the collet die to size any other aspect of the case. It has an inner mandrel of a given diameter and then uses a collet so that when you shove the brass up into it you force it in between the mandrel and collet which squeezes the brass down around the mandrel.

Here you can see how the two surfaces interact, the one with the slits inserts into the other and in doing so the angles squeeze it down closing up the slits and thus squeezing it down.

 

[NorCalMikie]

Thanks for that info. Now, are we able to get innards and swap parts from Lee? Do you know? And the fact that the TCM is a short case, what could you swap to? Has to be a way.

 

[spife7980]

Thats I cant say, I dont use one but I am intrigued by them. I will say I dont know why it wouldnt be possible provided you can get it set up correctly with proper heights etc. when the pieces act on one another but whether you can do that without grinding on parts yourself I havent the faintest clue in hell.

I will say I dont see very many offerings that are that short. The hornet would be the closest. The 300 BO would be a bit shorter but if the internals surfaces where the guts touch one another have different dimensions besides where they touch the case that would be a non option.

 

[NorCalMikie]

I'am not into "grinding" so if I'am able to swap parts one for another, much mo better.
I'll do some more looking around and see what's available (length) from Lee. Thanks again, Mike.

 

[NorCalMikie]

So much for getting the TCM collet die from Lee.


Not available from Lee because they're too short or no shell holder available.

• 5.7x28
• 7x33 Sako
• 7.65 Par
• 7.82 Warbird
• 7.92X33 Kura R
• 8mm Nambu
• 9.3X72
• 11 mm French
• 17 Mach IV
• 17 Pee Wee or 17/5.7 Johnson
• 19 Badger
• 22 Rem Jet
• 22 TCM
• 25-20 Win
• 30 M1 Carbine
• 30 Luger
• 32/20
• 43 Spanish
• 218 Bee
• 256 Win Mag
• 300 Whisper
• 470 Nitro Express

So with that in mind and the fact that the "collet die" doesn't touch the case body, maybe shorten an existing die?

Wonder if anybody knows if there's enough room in the body section for an extended shell holder to go fit inside??

And for the price, maybe get two different dies and swap my own parts. Find the shortest and go from there?
Looks like the only"20" caliber available is the .204 Ruger. Maybe turn down the bottom sleeve if an extended shell holder will fit inside the die body. Then shorten the OAL of the die body?

 

[spife7980]

Thats what I was thinking with grinding. Since the tcm shares the 223 body maybe grinding down a 223 collet die body and replacing the collet and mandrel with those from a 204. Probably grinding down the mandrel so it doesnt bottom out. But all that assumes that a 204 dies guts will actually fit in the 223 body. Having the parts in hand would be helpful.

While we wait for further input, can I ask whats driving this and what platform youre trying to go with? Why a collet die vs just the lee or hornady full length sets?

 

[T-shooter]

Not fond of Lee dies BUT, maybe in this application and I know nothing about the collet dies.
22 TCM necked down to 20 caliber.
Are the internal parts of the collet dies replacable? Can you swap parts one for the other?
Tried Hornady for a two die "bushing die" but ended up with a 3 die set that wouldn't work for my application. (sent it back) Looks like the two die set arn't available.
Could be a matter of length. The TCM is a shorty. Same shoulder as the .223. Is the collet die a full length sizer? Ideas? Opinions? Got a note into Lee but it never hurts to have first hand user info. Thanks, Mike.

The parts are all replaceable through LEE. They are not interchangeable as far as I know. But I did buy a larger diameter center shaft and bored out the piece it fits into. Reason being I wanted to reduce the neck diameter of a fired case in a couple steps, not all at once.

 

[foxguy]

I understand Lee will manufacture a Custom Collet Die, You may want to check with them to see if they will produce one for your 20 TCM. ??

 

[CharlieNC]

I understand Lee will manufacture a Custom Collet Die, You may want to check with them to see if they will produce one for your 20 TCM. ??

Yep.

 

[NorCalMikie]

"While we wait for further input, can I ask whats driving this and what platform you're trying to go with? Why a collet die vs just the Lee or Hornady full length sets?"

I needed to start somewhere SO, I just ordered a Lee collet die in .204 Ruger. I hava a friend that does my smith work and he has shortened a few dies for a few of my hairbrained projects as well as chambered a bunch of barrels for me..

Where I'am going with is a 22 TCM necked down to 20 caliber. Did the reamer thing and got a couple of barrels chambered. Popped a couple of rounds and got fired brass. "Custom made dies" will cost a couple of hundred $$ and no telling how long of a wait. I've done a little research and keep running into walls.
Hornady listed a 22 TCM die with a bushing for the neck. Ordered and received the dies. Turned out to be a "3 die set" and NOT a bushing 2 die set as advertised. And no bushing die available from Lee in the 22 TCM.
My plan was to use a bushing to neck down to 20 caliber. Same part number as the 3 die set and the "bushing" die wasn't available. So much for that idea.

What's driving this? "Reloadable center fire brass. When I squeeze the trigger and the round goes BANG, I want to see the holes forming on the target. I don't want to think MAYBE I saw the holes, I want to KNOW I saw the holes forming. Tried making a 20 VT "short". Making brass was a PITA!!
At 100 yards, there's just enough movement (recoil if you can call it that) that you loose the sight picture. Anything out past 100 yards and the gun has a chance to settle back down and you can see your hits. The TCM will hold close to 10 grains of ball powder. The "short" was closer to 12 or 13. Less powder=less recoil. The TCM brass is stout and will take a beating compared to Hornet, etc. The platform is a Savage Model 10 "left hand" repeater action, timed and trued and set up as a single shot with a single shot follower. That "left hand" action is mounted on a Laminated right hand thumb hole bench rest stock. Right hand keeps control of the stock while the "free" left hand feeds ammo and works the bolt. Rig comes in at around 16 pounds.
Found the TCM and it turns out to be a better mouse trap. Brass is a wildcatter's dream. Should be a bug hole maker and probably in the 3000 FPS range with 32 or 40 grain bullets.
For now, I'am making brass with Wildcat Shoulder Bump die. Would be real nice to have a one pass die like everything else.

 

[NorCalMikie]

I understand Lee will manufacture a Custom Collet Die, You may want to check with them to see if they will produce one for your 20 TCM. ??

Lee DOES NOT make a TCM in a collet die, Too short. See the above list.
Sent a note and just got a reply back stating the same.
That's the reason I ordered up a .204 Ruger collet set. I'll see if it can be shortened. If not, at least I found out for my self. And, it may save someone else from going down the same road.
The learning curve can be steep at times but sometimes, if you want something done, you have to do it yourself.

 

[Wirelessguy2005]

Call up Whidden Gunworks and have them make you a custom die, I spoke to John about a die for the 20tcm a couple years ago and he said he could make one.

 

[GrocMax]

I bet you could shorten up the 204R Lee die to work, but it would be pretty involved.

There needs to be a snap ring groove and a round snap ring at the bottom ID of the outer shell after cutting it to proper length, and then turn down the lower portion of the body chamber to less than the ID of the snap ring, and so at least .200" or so sticks below the outer shell, and the full diameter that registers to the outer shell rests on the snap ring. Maybe not a snap ring but needs something to prevent the body chamber from coming out the bottom of the outer shell. The mandrel would be way too long, you'd have to shorten it to proper length and peen the top over to be like a new one (or maybe a snap ring groove), or cut the decap end off and radius the end losing the decap ability.

FYI a 204R with approx. .075"-.080" (depends how far down you want to size the neck) off the bottom of the body chamber is perfect for a 20P/20-223AI.

 

[NorCalMikie]

Call up Whidden Gunworks and have them make you a custom die, I spoke to John about a die for the 20tcm a couple years ago and he said he could make one.

8 to 10 weeks and Custom Two Die Set $280.98

 

[Wirelessguy2005]

Whidden's will sell you a full length bushing die alone for much less. I am sure you could cut down a standard seat die from a 204 to cover bullet seating or even have a gunsmith make you one utilizing the chamber reamer. Both option should help keep the cost down.

8 to 10 weeks and Custom Two Die Set $280.98

 

[NorCalMikie]

If you shorten a full length die, you run into the built in taper of the case body. Been there, tried that, more than once. You end up scuffing the lower portion if the short case just above the groove you're trying to form/size.
If the body section of the Lee collet die is large enough to accept an extended shell holder, no matter how short you make it, you'll avoid the scuffing problem because the die doesn't touch the case body. That's the difference between shortening a full length sizing die and the collet die. In theory at least.

And, Whidden is still an option.

 

[GrocMax]

Sitting here with a 204R collet die, looks to me like you'd need to make a new chamber body moving the collet portion down about an inch, then putting a spacer on top. Its just too much shortening of the body chamber, you'd be into the slits.

 

[Iowa Fox]

I got another collet die this spring. First thing I did was disassemble it to clean and lube. I was amazed at the quality of the machine work and tight fit of the parts, far better than all the other collet dies I have gotten in the past. Lee should sell a kit with a quality body die, the collet die. and about 3 mandrels in half thousanth increments. I have heard of a few guys that have reworked the dies for their shorter cases but not seen any in person.

 

[GrocMax]

I found a 22 TCM dwg it gave a base diameter of .372" and a shoulder diameter of .362", 23 deg angle. It looks like a cut down 221FB bushing die with the correct 20 cal bushing would be very close for FL sizing.