Die bottoming out

[T-shooter]

Yes they are being lubed with the white lee lube that comes in a toothpaste like tube. Give me 30mins I will see if a case measuring 1.412 goes closer to the shell holder and die touching then one measuring 1.414.

That isn't the best lube. It works ok while it's wet, not so well after it dries. I used to thin it down with a little water on a pad and roll the cases in it. After it dried, it was almost like no lube at all.

 

[LHSmith]

Also, please verify, as asked back in post 7, that all 50 pcs of brass were only fired in YOUR chamber.

 

[Matt in Virginia]

fwiw,
Redding cannot even make a standard shellholder to specification on headspace. I have a #10 that Mics to .133". This shellholder dates from 2005 and is NOT a Competition Model THOUGH it does share .008" less headspace than is proper and people wonder why the Co-Ax is popular. That is with a Starrett Depth Mic and a Ratchet Spindle. Even had a 40 year machinist mic it as I was certain I was not doing something wrong. There was something wrong, however, it was not with my Depth Mic or my technique.

I'd really like to see someone like 21st Century make accurate sets that were RIGHT FROM THE START. I don't even deal with Redding as I'm not mailing shellholders to and fro... Having access to a 6x18 B&S Micromaster has saved the day on more than one occaision. I will say Herr Turban actually recommended RCBS shellholders after I had mentioned Redding. Never thought I would go to RCBS to maintain a spec that Redding could not. We shall see...

I HAVE found Redding Shellholders do a SUPERB job holding cases while running through my AMP...;-). Even a wrecked ship can serve as a point of reference for other traffic. They are not completely useless. Just REAL close. Should not say that... Atleast they give me extra material rather than not enough. Thanks guys!

You know when I heard Mr. Murdica mention Hornady Match Grade Dies as being his first or second choice when it came to performance. I realized that things have changed and names, that may have meant something 10 or 15 years ago, may mean less today than they did then... Conversly those who were "also rans" years back may not still be in the back of the pack. Expense and old reputations evidently DO NOT guarantee performance in the here and now...

Regards, Matt.

Btw, I did not surface grind the #10. I had started trying to remove material with 320 grit on a surface plate and realized the steel was heat treated, and I was likely to get the face off center, not to mention I might want to keep the shellholder for anyone who might question the spec... Still hits .1375". Makes for a humorous conversation piece. There are those who "true" shellholders... I'm going to switch to RCBS & try to get a set from Triebel in Germany to see what type of tolerance they keep.

 

[kountryboy2]

Matt,
Which is it,.133 or .1375?

 

[Matt in Virginia]

Matt,
Which is it,.133 or .1375?

Good catch... It was .133" until the 320 grit and the surface plate. It is .1325" or close there to. Looks like I need to proofread...

Regards, Matt.

Edited to add: It is actually closer to .1322" or .1323". I took it out of the AMP chuck and put it into a little German Walther/Bilsley Vise and came up between what looks like .1322 and 1323". Not that easy to break down a Starrett 440Z Depth Mic into tenths. That said it settles there on both sides without hitting the "10" or some fairly mild machining marks. Strikes me as a fair measurement. It was .133" on the button before my vain efforts on the surface plate. For want of a surface grinder...

As an aside I bought two Redding No. 1 Shellholders, hoping I got a lemon or three in the past, and decent No. 1s as of late. In short both were off, nothing like the No. 10, however, they were identical. I suppose they were made at the same time. Still if you offer Precision Shell Holder Sets they really ought to put more effort in hitting the number.

 

[Pigdog]

Ok so I tried a case that measures 1.412 and chambers in my rifle easily it has the same gap between shell holder and die that a 1.414 case measures that won't chamber. I bought the gun second hand and as far as I know they were only shot in this rifle. I'm going to try what helincoln suggested and move the die out and screw in feeling for bump

 

[savagedasher]

Ok so I tried a case that measures 1.412 and chambers in my rifle easily it has the same gap between shell holder and die that a 1.414 case measures that won't chamber. I bought the gun second hand and as far as I know they were only shot in this rifle. I'm going to try what helincoln suggested and move the die out and screw in feeling for bump

If you remove the primer de priming attachment and the die bumping the shell holder will The sized case close in the chamber?
If yes your sizeing the case
If no you're not.
If your not then cut a shim out a soda the same size as the case head and insert it in the shell holder under the case head and repeat. If it closes in the chamber your die is too long then you have a choice trim the bottom of the die or shorten the top of the shell holder . You can used as many shims as needed .
If the shim is 4 thousands you then will know how much is needed.
Many of times I use a shim rather then re adjust my dies . Good luck Larry

 

[Pigdog]

Ok I'm off to try the soda can shims and will report back if this works

 

[LHSmith]

Ok I'm off to try the soda can shims and will report back if this works

You have already removed 0.020" off the s/h with no affect -yet your difference in measurements say they should.....adding shims between the case head will equate to pushing the case another 0.010" into the die.
Did you personally fire those 1.414 cases in that chamber? If not measure the base of the 1.414 cases and compare that to the base of the 1.412 cases.

 

[savagedasher]

You have already removed 0.020" off the s/h with no affect -yet your difference in measurements say they should.....adding shims between the case head will equate to pushing the case another 0.010" into the die.
Did you personally fire those 1.414 cases in that chamber? If not measure the base of the 1.414 cases and compare that to the base of the 1.412 cases.

He need t stop meisuring. And to use the gun chamber to give him the answer . Larry

 

[Pigdog]

Ok drained a beer can and cut 3 shims which is as much as I could get in there I tried 4 as well but it was too tight. Result was no different. I did not personally fire any of the rounds in the rifle but I will measure the base of the 2 cases. I think this chamber is so short that even with the shims etc it is still not being sized. I'm going to sand the shell holder and the die now and keep going until something changes I'm at the point where I couldn't care less whether i stuff my die or shellholder

 

[LHSmith]

What gage/tooling are you using to get those 1.412 and 1.414 numbers?

 

[Pigdog]

Measure case head with calipers within half a thou of eachother Using hornday comparator and Sinclair insert

 

[savagedasher]

What gage/tooling are you using to get those 1.412 and 1.414 numbers?

He

Have you fired this rifle at all since you got it?

He needs to use the chamber to give him the answers Larry

 

[LHSmith]

hey guys I think sanding the shell holder will sort this prob out, the chamber is short and die to long so I need to close that gap, I will sand later and report in. One other thing that is bothering me and I need to ask is its a customer cut chamber on the chamber reamer drawing it shows a measurement from bolt face to should of 1.4025. My cases that wont chamber measure 1.414 and the ones that do chamber measure 1.412. So my cases that wont chamber are 9 thou shorter than the chamber drawing???

You can compare your reamer dwg to this:
http://www.accurateshooter.com/cartridge-guides/65x47/
Be aware the actual chamber will not always match the print.

 

[PDS]

This is off the Redding website FAQ section. If your Lee press doesn't cam over it might be part of the problem. You can contact Lee Precision thru their website it looks like they don't take phone calls

Question: I have my Full Length Resizing Die/Body Die adjusted so that it is touching the Shellholder and I cannot push my shoulder back. Is there something wrong with my Sizing Die?



Answer: Probably not. In most instances, using Cam-Over will allow the reloader to push the shoulder back sufficiently.

To set a Full Length/Body Die up to Cam-Over:

1) Install the appropriate Shellholder into the Ram of your Press.

2) Raise the Ram so that it is in its uppermost position.

3) Screw the Full Length Resizing Die/Body Die down into the press until it firmly contacts the Shellholder.

4) Back the Ram away from the Die.

5) Screw the Die down FURTHER into your press an additional 1/8th to ¼ turn.

Note that you will feel the Ram/Shellholder contact the resizing Die before the stroke is completed. Completing the Ram Stroke will feel as though you are snapping the latch on a toolbox.

These directions apply only to standard Single Stage Presses. If your single stage press was not manufactured by Redding Reloading Equipment, please contact the manufacturer to see if using Cam-Over is appropriate for your particular Reloading Press.

 

[savagedasher]

This is off the Redding website FAQ section. If your Lee press doesn't cam over it might be part of the problem. You can contact Lee Precision thru their website it looks like they don't take phone calls

Question: I have my Full Length Resizing Die/Body Die adjusted so that it is touching the Shellholder and I cannot push my shoulder back. Is there something wrong with my Sizing Die?



Answer: Probably not. In most instances, using Cam-Over will allow the reloader to push the shoulder back sufficiently.

To set a Full Length/Body Die up to Cam-Over:

1) Install the appropriate Shellholder into the Ram of your Press.

2) Raise the Ram so that it is in its uppermost position.

3) Screw the Full Length Resizing Die/Body Die down into the press until it firmly contacts the Shellholder.

4) Back the Ram away from the Die.

5) Screw the Die down FURTHER into your press an additional 1/8th to ¼ turn.

Note that you will feel the Ram/Shellholder contact the resizing Die before the stroke is completed. Completing the Ram Stroke will feel as though you are snapping the latch on a toolbox.

These directions apply only to standard Single Stage Presses. If your single stage press was not manufactured by Redding Reloading Equipment, please contact the manufacturer to see if using Cam-Over is appropriate for your particular Reloading Press.

Good job. Larry

 

[LHSmith]

First I would get new brass. I would also suggest a Classic Cast Lee or Rockchucker or Redding Boss press. Also FL sizing die and use it every time. Once you are 100% sure that the brass was fired in that chamber, you can get a better idea on your chambers actual dimensions. It usually takes 2 firings of moderately stiff loads to fully fireform.

 

[savagedasher]

First I would get new brass. I would also suggest a Classic Cast Lee or Rockchucker or Redding Boss press. Also FL sizing die and use it every time. Once you are 100% sure that the brass was fired in that chamber, you can get a better idea on your chambers actual dimensions. It usually takes 2 firings of moderately stiff loads to fully fireform.

Lee classic cast who but you and me would ever use one . lol Larry

 

[T-shooter]

He

He needs to use the chamber to give him the answers Larry

You can't use those tools to measure the headspace correctly. They aren't accurate enough They are good for comparisons. For instance, on a .308, the point to measure headspace is a diameter of .400" diameter on the shoulder. If your comparison insert had exactly a .400" bore and the edges were sharp, it would be very close as long as the case was also perfect. The problem is the bores aren't exact and the rear edge of the bore has a radius. That will allow it to sit back towards the primer end of the case more giving a shorter reading. Like in the drawing below, the difference of a radiused edge allows the tool to go back the distance between the red and blue lines even if the bore was exact the correct diameter. I recently checked the same case in my Hornady comparator and a friend's, (the exact same Hornady tools) and got two different readings several thousandths apart. There are production tolerances. Once you have a case that is correct, measure it and use those specs to compare to any others. My .308 insert measures the headspace distance a full .020" shorter than the normal specs.