223 Wylde Match Load

[T-shooter]

+1. Now I don't know "delusional" is the right word...INEXPERIENCED in comparison is perhaps a better. In reading many of the comments above, it is clear to me that some are trying to apply many of the same precise principles we Benchrest and precision/competition Shooter use in Bolt Gun reloading to AR's. That my friend AIN'T GONNA HAPPEN. Now I claim no spectacular expertise with AR's, but do know from experience, that it is a pipe dream to believe that any AR, custom or otherwise, will ever keep up with a Precision built bolt gun. And my experience comes from having had a custom built AR15 (San Tan Tactical Upper/Lower, PRS Stock, JP Precision Parts and Barrel) built by a master Gunsmith who competes and built my rifle to mirror his competition AR15. And though if I load each round by hand and play with seating depth, my 5 shot groups do tighten up a tad, though those 5 shots are all touching one another using 77 gr Sierra and are darn close using 69 grains when I load from a Magpul magazine, that at 100 yds. Now I admit, I am the weak link in the cycle because at 70, my eyesight isn't what it was when I was 30. But back then AR's weren't made like they are today, as I ended up giving a few to my boys as they could care less about 5 shots group touching, so long as the damn thing hits what they aim at. But I will add that no matter the AR make or model, you still have to test for both bullet weight and the powder it likes best. And that feature is no different than any of weapons for which someone would reload for.

But might I suggest, that as others have already said, don't set yourself for disappointment by expecting more out of a weapon than it is capable. From experience over several years, a $1500 AR is not going to shoot like a $3000 - $4000 AR. And the person pulling the trigger may well be the difference in even getting close. But of course, each of us has to be honest with their ability (inherent or learned) to hit exactly what they aim for. And that, my friends, is the toughest part of the equation to master. Having seen it time and time again where people complain about the weapon's inaccuracy, only to have someone whose an accomplished shooter, pick up the same rifle and shoot some fantastic scores or targets.

Lastly, do try the 69 and 77 gr Sierras. The powder that has worked very nicely for me is VVN140 in a JP Precision 1:8 chamber. Might consider also trying some VVN530 or VVN540. No guarantee your rifle will like them. But you won't know until you test some. Most importantly, have fun and good luck in your efforts. But don't waste your time chasing the impossible dream that only happens in trash talking or the movies.

Alex

Very well put Alex. I built an AR a couple years ago. A Palmetto 16" 1/8 upper and Magpul plastic. I reworked the trigger to be shorter and just under a 4 lb pull. It is not free floated and with the extreme jump (over .100"), accuracy suffers. I have magazines I can load to 2.300" but that still leaves a lot to be desired with a 5.56 NATO chamber. My best efforts will give me 1-1/4" to 1-1/2" groups at 100 yards off a bench. The best round so far has been the Sierra M/K 69 grain BTHP with 25.3 grains of Varget in a Federal case. I just got a Wylde 18" 1/7 upper but haven't got to work with it much yet. I did see about a 3% increase in muzzle velocity with it. The purpose of the rifle is home defense but I like to see how accurate it will shoot too.

 

[Shynloco]

T-Shooter,
AS an aside, in the Bulletin today, another member wrote about a comparison he did in examining the effect rapid fire has on barrel life vs slow fire and cleaning a barrel over a period of shooting. Now I fully agree with his assessment, but what jumped out at me was not the test per se, but the corrosive powder he used, Varget. In my years of reloading my own ammo, I've not seen such a corrosive powder as Varget. And that on any make barrel you can think of. I've read articles that speak of "chamber corrosion" and the problems Varget creates, especially if the chamber, barrel isn't clean regularly. And to be sure, itsw the HEAT it generates that is the problem. Now I'm not disputing that Varget is a "good shooting" powder and that many high scores have been shot using Varget in various caliber weapons. I have used it myself and can testify to it's good side and usefulness. I can also positively say that I can get near the same if not better accuracy results, using VVN140 in my custom built AR15. And I've noted that all VVN powders I've used, leave my barrel much cleaner than when I shoot with Varget. So do not forget to CLEAN that AR of yours to increase barrel life. And when using Varget, stay the heck away from "rapid fire" and excess heating of the barrel, as you will see barrel cracking which the article I referenced speaks about. Most AR's, regardless of make, are tough cookies and can take SOME abuse. But a regular diet of rapid fire fire using Varget will also bring on an early barrel replacement. Just food for thought and have fun with the accuracy of that baby of your's.

Alex

 

[T-shooter]

T-Shooter,
AS an aside, in the Bulletin today, another member wrote about a comparison he did in examining the effect rapid fire has on barrel life vs slow fire and cleaning a barrel over a period of shooting. Now I fully agree with his assessment, but what jumped out at me was not the test per se, but the corrosive powder he used, Varget. In my years of reloading my own ammo, I've not seen such a corrosive powder as Varget. And that on any make barrel you can think of. I've read articles that speak of "chamber corrosion" and the problems Varget creates, especially if the chamber, barrel isn't clean regularly. And to be sure, itsw the HEAT it generates that is the problem. Now I'm not disputing that Varget is a "good shooting" powder and that many high scores have been shot using Varget in various caliber weapons. I have used it myself and can testify to it's good side and usefulness. I can also positively say that I can get near the same if not better accuracy results, using VVN140 in my custom built AR15. And I've noted that all VVN powders I've used, leave my barrel much cleaner than when I shoot with Varget. So do not forget to CLEAN that AR of yours to increase barrel life. And when using Varget, stay the heck away from "rapid fire" and excess heating of the barrel, as you will see barrel cracking which the article I referenced speaks about. Most AR's, regardless of make, are tough cookies and can take SOME abuse. But a regular diet of rapid fire fire using Varget will also bring on an early barrel replacement. Just food for thought and have fun with the accuracy of that baby of your's.

Alex

Thanks. That's a new one on me about Varget. I usually never do rapid fire and clean after every shooting session. My AR has a 416 stainless barrel. I also use it in my Savage .308 bolt-action. The reason for Varget is temperature insensitivity. I haven't seen any evidence of corrosion but it may require a bore scope. So it's excessive that is causing it and not a chemical process?

I remember years ago a friend of mine bragged he had a lot of cheap NATO surplus .308 ammo. The bought a new rifle and never cleaned it for a while. Later on I looked down the barrel after he had cleaned it and it was a horror show. No shine, just a lot of pits especially near the chamber and it was hard to see the rifling clearly in the first couple inches. That junk was highly corrosive. He replaced it soon after and is a little wiser.

 

[J Nehring]

www.backcavitybullets.com magazines, .223 and 6.8SPC allow 2.360 COAL. Quality PRI 10rd mags modified (cutout). Around $58 shipped.

Awesome! Just ordered two of them, this will allow me to load right up to the lands with no problem (and room to spare!).

 

[J Nehring]

Thanks. That's a new one on me about Varget. I usually never do rapid fire and clean after every shooting session. My AR has a 416 stainless barrel. I also use it in my Savage .308 bolt-action. The reason for Varget is temperature insensitivity. I haven't seen any evidence of corrosion but it may require a bore scope. So it's excessive that is causing it and not a chemical process?

I remember years ago a friend of mine bragged he had a lot of cheap NATO surplus .308 ammo. The bought a new rifle and never cleaned it for a while. Later on I looked down the barrel after he had cleaned it and it was a horror show. No shine, just a lot of pits especially near the chamber and it was hard to see the rifling clearly in the first couple inches. That junk was highly corrosive. He replaced it soon after and is a little wiser.

I can possibly testify to the Varget being possibly corrosive, although unable to positively prove. I have noticed, with use of this powder, that when I disassemble my BCG on my AR there is this corrosive appearing carbon deposits on the tail end of the bolt as well as inside the BCG. I have since switched over to VV N-140 with very impressive consistency in velocity (a big improvement over Varget). I no longer have this white corrosive looking powder residue inside my gun when I go to clean.

 

[J Nehring]

T-Shooter,
AS an aside, in the Bulletin today, another member wrote about a comparison he did in examining the effect rapid fire has on barrel life vs slow fire and cleaning a barrel over a period of shooting. Now I fully agree with his assessment, but what jumped out at me was not the test per se, but the corrosive powder he used, Varget. In my years of reloading my own ammo, I've not seen such a corrosive powder as Varget. And that on any make barrel you can think of. I've read articles that speak of "chamber corrosion" and the problems Varget creates, especially if the chamber, barrel isn't clean regularly. And to be sure, itsw the HEAT it generates that is the problem. Now I'm not disputing that Varget is a "good shooting" powder and that many high scores have been shot using Varget in various caliber weapons. I have used it myself and can testify to it's good side and usefulness. I can also positively say that I can get near the same if not better accuracy results, using VVN140 in my custom built AR15. And I've noted that all VVN powders I've used, leave my barrel much cleaner than when I shoot with Varget. So do not forget to CLEAN that AR of yours to increase barrel life. And when using Varget, stay the heck away from "rapid fire" and excess heating of the barrel, as you will see barrel cracking which the article I referenced speaks about. Most AR's, regardless of make, are tough cookies and can take SOME abuse. But a regular diet of rapid fire fire using Varget will also bring on an early barrel replacement. Just food for thought and have fun with the accuracy of that baby of your's.

Alex

I can possibly testify to the Varget being possibly corrosive, although unable to positively prove. I have noticed, with use of this powder, that when I disassemble my BCG on my AR there is this corrosive appearing carbon deposits on the tail end of the bolt as well as inside the BCG. I have since switched over to VV N-140 with very impressive consistency in velocity (a big improvement over Varget). I no longer have this white corrosive looking powder residue inside my gun when I go to clean.

 

[J Nehring]

www.backcavitybullets.com magazines, .223 and 6.8SPC allow 2.360 COAL. Quality PRI 10rd mags modified (cutout). Around $58 shipped.

Does anybody make such a thing for AR-10 mags (308/7.62)?

 

[T-shooter]

Awesome! Just ordered two of them, this will allow me to load right up to the lands with no problem (and room to spare!).

Tried to find that website but it won't load. They will allow a 5.56/.223 to load to 2.360"? I bought several different magazines and the only two that would allow a 2.300" length were the Korean H&K knockoffs and the ASC stainless. I order 5 of ASC's and only 2 would allow even a 2.300" length. A way to check is to remove the base plate and allow the follower to go to the bottom and back up with a couple rounds by moving the loose spring from the bottom. Some of the ASC mags would take a longer round up top but half way down they stuck. They need to be free to the bottom of their travel. I did save the mage by squeezing them in a vise which bowed the ends out an little but I wouldn't recommend it, you could break the welds. Can you show us the website again?

 

[T-shooter]

Tried to find that website but it won't load. They will allow a 5.56/.223 to load to 2.360"? I bought several different magazines and the only two that would allow a 2.300" length were the Korean H&K knockoffs and the ASC stainless. I order 5 of ASC's and only 2 would allow even a 2.300" length. A way to check is to remove the base plate and allow the follower to go to the bottom and back up with a couple rounds by moving the loose spring from the bottom. Some of the ASC mags would take a longer round up top but half way down they stuck. They need to be free to the bottom of their travel. I did save the mage by squeezing them in a vise which bowed the ends out an little but I wouldn't recommend it, you could break the welds. Can you show us the website again?

Found it: http://www.cavitybackbullets.com/product-p/cb-pri-mod-5.56.htm I see what they did. Cut the front out and the inside of the magazine well is used as the front of the mag. I had heard of that mod before. I don't think you can make one longer than 10 rounds or longer than the bottom of the mag well.

 

[Mark M.]

You might want to look at a higher end Barrel like a Krieger, bartlein or lilja