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what tollerances for top shooters

regnar
i find that there is prolly 2x more error in my wind judgement than all my reloading error combined. how do i know this?.....shoot at night when there is zero wind. i mean zero. you wil never know what you are capable of til you shoot with zero wind

my point is this....with good benchrest equipment and solid benchrest reloading techniques (presuming good shooting skills) most all of us are capable of being competitive

reading the wind is a whole different game!!!!!......that, along with luck, is what separates 1st place from 20th place...

i remember being at a score shoot (528 perfect score) where about 20 shooters were within about 8 points of each other. there was almost zero wind that day

not trying to dodge your question but its easy to lose focus on what can be most important
and i appreciate your question and all the answers, although my tolerances arent near those listed
im bout a decimal off some of the above measurements. some spot on

I disagree as well.


I have lucky enough to not only competeat the upper levels in a few sports and even luckier to be competitive. Everything I have ever competed in i have attempted to to so at the the highest level. There is so much more winning then having the best equipment. in my experience preperation is the biggst factor. For me, that prepetation incudes
the reloading process. If I know that I have done everything possible to make rounds that are exactly the same then when I am on the line I have 100% confidence in them and I can focus 100% of my attention on the task at hand.

Thus the reason I asked about reloading and not wind reading. Wind reading is fact based. an 8mph full value wind is an 8mph full value wind. Once you learn how to read it, how to see the subtle changes then you can adjust the same way all the time. I do agree it may be the most difficult piece of the puzzle.

I see reloading as mre of the black art of the sport. its all the same yet their are so many tricks to make it better. That is why I asked the question and that is why I want to know.
 
Set the turner on an ice pack between cases and when you see the necks start to get thicker your getting the tool warm.
I agree, that keeping the aluminum frame a constant temp by cooling, is more beneficial than cooling the carbide mandrel which has very little expanding characteristics.
 
This is kind of a loaded question & as simple as it may appear to answer it's not. What I mean is nothing in my loading regamine is a line item if you will, now there are a few things I will typically implement when creating a base line like bumping a case or starting seating depth but there are so many variables with in the variables. Example when I'm annealing brass every time I will approach that ammo with a different approach vs ammo that is +1 +2 +3 etc. it is my belief that annealed brass prefers slower burning powders as a rule & brass with multiple firings on it perform better with quicker burning powders. Annealed brass can handle more bump in a case than brass with multiple firing on in it, they seam to perform better with less bump & qiucher burning powder. Skinny bullets can typically skate by with average neck hold but fat bullets require double the hold to draw the best out of them. Then there is the loaded round run out which I feel is important to have in check if your jumping but if lightly ir heavy jamming a bullet I feel it is a moot point. This next one may raise a eye brow or two or not... I feel fat bullets are less affected by bore heat vs skinny bullets, figure that one out. Powder volume & powder charge weight consistency is massive. All bullets and powders are affected by humidity some just slot more than others. Throat geometry will affectively alter how I tune a given rifle also. I can go on and on but I should probably try to give a base line.

Slow powder .002-.003 bump case
Faster powder maybe .0005-.002 bump case
Always full length size every time
Bullets I batch +- .000
weight sort bullets +- 2 one hundredth
Bullet jump benchrest typically .004 off to .010 in never zero bad mojo
Brass length +- .000
powder +- .ooo
Seating depth +- .ooo
Brass bump +- .000

Shawn williams
 
So, i turn my necks on a 21st century lathe. how w ould I go about cooling it,? Ice pack between cases. Comprrssed air can upside down?
 
I'm open to new ideas, but are are saying put the whole lathe in ice water? Not sure that is feasible with this lathe? Am I missing something?
I turn by hand so I can just put the turner in. I also set up and use two or three turners. Letting each one lay between non use. Didn't see where you used the lathe. Matt
 
Powder Charge:





Neck turning:I use a K&M tool and expander and turn all my .308 necks to .0125" wall thickness. That usually takes out most of the irregularities. I use .001" to .002" interference fit in the necks. and try to feel if there is any difference in seating pressure. I've been using graphite powder as a lubricant in the necks but have no long term experience with it yet. I did have trouble with maybe 5-6% of bullets sticking in the necks when they were all sized and loaded exactly the same and at the same time and sat for maybe 6 months. You would never know this unless you pulled loads apart. Using a collet pullet, some came apart easy and a few stuck pretty tight, enough I had to smack the handle on the press to break the lose, and these all had .001" interference fit. Could be the reason I got a few odd fliers.
If you would seat the bullets a hair deeper to break them loose, they will pull easier. I bet if you reseated them a few thousandths deeper before you shot them it would stop the fliers from cold welding. Matt
 
regnar
i find that there is prolly 2x more error in my wind judgement than all my reloading error combined. how do i know this?.....shoot at night when there is zero wind. i mean zero. you wil never know what you are capable of til you shoot with zero wind

my point is this....with good benchrest equipment and solid benchrest reloading techniques (presuming good shooting skills) most all of us are capable of being competitive

reading the wind is a whole different game!!!!!......that, along with luck, is what separates 1st place from 20th place...
There are loads that shoot way better through the wind then other loads. Finding it is not easy sometimes. I think this goes along with what Alex says. Read post 40. I see it all the time in BR during the sighter period and on groups shot on paper. We get all our targets back and sometimes you see things by looking at them. Holes are straighter or smaller. Some guys loads drift twice as much as others even though they are using the same bullets and running about the same velocity. In the short range game they are looking for that load that let's them shoot where they aim. It is hard to believe but if you shoot enough paper targets at 1000, you will see it. Matt
 
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..... I have seen a lot of pristine.....
There are loads that shoot way better through the wind then other loads.......
Agree 100% with Alex and Matt, very noticeably seen combinations that are more "wind tolerant" and/or hold center more predominately. While I believe the entire system is accountable, I trend to think the barrel itself as the major source and reason within the system.
Donovan
 
Agree 100% with Alex and Matt, very noticeably seen combinations that are more "wind tolerant" and/or hold center more predominately. While I believe the entire system is accountable, I trend to think the barrel itself as the major source and reason within the system.
Donovan

I had 2 good rifles a few years ago. One would shoot very small groups, but always shifted out of the box after sighter period. The other shot a little bigger but would center up much better. I won a scope at the championship using the second gun, it shot good groups and scores. The other gun would shoot tiny groups, but bad scores. Figure that one out!
 
I had 2 good rifles a few years ago. One would shoot very small groups, but always shifted out of the box after sighter period. The other shot a little bigger but would center up much better. I won a scope at the championship using the second gun, it shot good groups and scores. The other gun would shoot tiny groups, but bad scores. Figure that one out!
Is it the bullets, or in the barrel, or the stock, or harmonics, etc., etc, ?.?.?
Thinking if we could ever pin-point the reason (or reasons) we'd have it made !.!.!

You better get back to making @tom stuff, or he may get on and threaten you again...
Donovan
 
I dont think so Larry. We didnt shoot enough paper for even me to notice it. The difference between 2 rifles. Both accurate but one will shoot great scores and the other wouldnt. It took a season to notice it. It became obvious enough that if conditions were bad Id shoot the one that grouped bigger because it would seemingly shoot through the conditions and still shoot a good score. The one that shot smaller groups would end up nice and small but in the 8 ring.
 
So, i turn my necks on a 21st century lathe. how w ould I go about cooling it,? Ice pack between cases. Comprrssed air can upside down?
Andis makes a thing called Cool Care Plus. It is made for cooling clipper blades and works well on neck turning equip.
 
Larry, your right. Benchrest shooters are a bunch of little boys. We are not manly enough to shoot gongs or F-open. And we are fair weather shooters, scared of wind, no doubt about it. I think thats the point you try to make with a lot of your posts right? I bet the REAL men use slings.

Smile :)
 

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