Alex Wheeler
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Set the turner on an ice pack between cases and when you see the necks start to get thicker your getting the tool warm.
what tollerances for top shooters
- Thread starter Regnar
- Start date
Alex Wheeler
Site $$ Sponsor
LOl! serious???
Alex Wheeler
Site $$ Sponsor
yep
Powder Charge: .02 grain double checking each load on an FX-300i scale
Shoulders: I set mine .001" shorter than a fired case and measure using a Hornady head space comparator.
Trim Length: I use a simple Lee cutter and try to get them all the same so when neck turning, I get the same depth of cut.
Case Volume: I group cases into weight catagories. I have checked before and as a rule heavier cases (same brand and lot number) usually have a smaller internal volume. Better than nothing but a lot less time consuming than measuring each case.
Seating Depth: I measure the jump (distance to the rifling). For me .025" works well. After making a test round in the chamber, I measure it with a Hornady comparator with a bullet insert. I seat all bullets to this depth within .001". Seating from the tips isn't very accurate.
Neck turning:I use a K&M tool and expander and turn all my .308 necks to .0125" wall thickness. That usually takes out most of the irregularities. I use .001" to .002" interference fit in the necks. and try to feel if there is any difference in seating pressure. I've been using graphite powder as a lubricant in the necks but have no long term experience with it yet. I did have trouble with maybe 5-6% of bullets sticking in the necks when they were all sized and loaded exactly the same and at the same time and sat for maybe 6 months. You would never know this unless you pulled loads apart. Using a collet pullet, some came apart easy and a few stuck pretty tight, enough I had to smack the handle on the press to break the lose, and these all had .001" interference fit. Could be the reason I got a few odd fliers before.
Cases: I try only to use new cases, not once fired by someone else, usually Lapua or Hornady. My last batch of new Hornady .308 Match were beyond horrible. I was getting way too much runout. I had to anneal and resize them to get down to a respectable level. These have yet to be fired. The Hornady seem to handle pressure better than the Lapua.
Runout: I measure my runout 1/2 way between the neck and the bullet tip. I like to see no more than .001" (or .0005" from centerline) using a Sinclair gauge. I can usually get maybe 1/3 to .001", maybe up to 3/4 under .002". The rest may go to .003". If they are larger than that they are used for sighting or warm up. Straightening isn't a good idea because when you tweak them back, you loosened the neck tension.
Testing: When working up a load I may shoot 3each at 1/2 grain intervals looking for a closer group. (I've been fooled by only 3 many times). The shoot 5 each at 2/10 grain intervals and when finalizing on a load, at least 10 shots with 1/10 difference in the powder charge plus carefully watching the barrel temperature.
dmoran
Donovan Moran
Like Alex (and many others) I to place the tuner mandrel on ice between each case, which goes far to controlling heat issues created by the neck turning operation.
Donovan
THanks for all the information. For me, the reloading aspect is as much fun as the shooting. like someone said in another thread, time and the willingness to invest it is a huge key to success in this sport. i agreewith that. Right ow, with yeo teenage boys going in 10 diffetent ditection ( a couple ate shooting), life dictatesthat I dont have as much time competing as I woul like bit I am able to spend more time in the reloading room than most.
HEreis my process. if you all see anything out of line please let me know.
-Weigh allnew brass and sepetate by +-.05 gr.
-Trim all to length on a wilson trimmer to .0005 varience
-TUrn necks ( 6.6 creed & lapua)with a 21st century lathe. this is the part I think I have the least control of as i cant seem to get necks bellow.001 runout. i believe heat is the issue. I think I will try compressed air to cool the mandrell. Also ise an expandingmandrell before turning.
CHamfur
Seat primers with rcbs hand primer ( 21century???)
SEat with a k&m arbor press and wilson seater measiring each round and sorying based on .0005.
FL resize and check shoulders to .002
SHoot
CLean in ss media
Aneal with annealeze
TRim
CHamfur
SEat & measure.
SHoot.
I Want to start measuring and sorting bullets
EVery step is recorded in my reloading log. I keep track of
# of reloads
LOt numbets on powder, primers, bullets and brass
All measurment numbers
# of shell reloaded and culled
HEreis my process. if you all see anything out of line please let me know.
-Weigh allnew brass and sepetate by +-.05 gr.
-Trim all to length on a wilson trimmer to .0005 varience
-TUrn necks ( 6.6 creed & lapua)with a 21st century lathe. this is the part I think I have the least control of as i cant seem to get necks bellow.001 runout. i believe heat is the issue. I think I will try compressed air to cool the mandrell. Also ise an expandingmandrell before turning.
CHamfur
Seat primers with rcbs hand primer ( 21century???)
SEat with a k&m arbor press and wilson seater measiring each round and sorying based on .0005.
FL resize and check shoulders to .002
SHoot
CLean in ss media
Aneal with annealeze
TRim
CHamfur
SEat & measure.
SHoot.
I Want to start measuring and sorting bullets
EVery step is recorded in my reloading log. I keep track of
# of reloads
LOt numbets on powder, primers, bullets and brass
All measurment numbers
# of shell reloaded and culled
I wouldn't do either of these.... especially the cleaning with SS media
WHy not?
dmoran
Donovan Moran
Many don't use SS tumbling media because it affects the inside neck tension due to removing all of the carbon from the inside of the necks. During the bullet seating process the bullet wants to drag on the very clean neck giving inconsistent seating pressures. Some carbon acts somewhat as a little bit of a dry lubricant.
regnar
i find that there is prolly 2x more error in my wind judgement than all my reloading error combined. how do i know this?.....shoot at night when there is zero wind. i mean zero. you wil never know what you are capable of til you shoot with zero wind
my point is this....with good benchrest equipment and solid benchrest reloading techniques (presuming good shooting skills) most all of us are capable of being competitive
reading the wind is a whole different game!!!!!......that, along with luck, is what separates 1st place from 20th place...
i remember being at a score shoot (528 perfect score) where about 20 shooters were within about 8 points of each other. there was almost zero wind that day
not trying to dodge your question but its easy to lose focus on what can be most important
and i appreciate your question and all the answers, although my tolerances arent near those listed
im bout a decimal off some of the above measurements. some spot on
i find that there is prolly 2x more error in my wind judgement than all my reloading error combined. how do i know this?.....shoot at night when there is zero wind. i mean zero. you wil never know what you are capable of til you shoot with zero wind
my point is this....with good benchrest equipment and solid benchrest reloading techniques (presuming good shooting skills) most all of us are capable of being competitive
reading the wind is a whole different game!!!!!......that, along with luck, is what separates 1st place from 20th place...
i remember being at a score shoot (528 perfect score) where about 20 shooters were within about 8 points of each other. there was almost zero wind that day
not trying to dodge your question but its easy to lose focus on what can be most important
and i appreciate your question and all the answers, although my tolerances arent near those listed
im bout a decimal off some of the above measurements. some spot on
Last edited:
Alex Wheeler
Site $$ Sponsor
I have to disagree. I have seen a lot of pristine relays, and still only a few guns will shoot good enough to win. I have sat new Shooters on a well tuned gun and watched them win a relay or match. I think the "its the conditions or me" mentality holds a lot of guys back. I believe at most matches less than 25% of the guns shoot well enough to win. When they are really tuned, you almost can't screw it up the bullets just go in the group.
Mulligan
Silver $$ Contributor
Not that I know a thing about this, however Tony Boyer states very clearly in "The book of Rifle Accuracy" that you are correct Alex @Alex Wheeler
Plenty of "forgive" in a well tuned rig.
CW
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