Neck sizing or FL?

[Richard Coody]

So i have a simple question for the full length sizing crowd. The neck sizers say the.full length crowd is overworking their brass especially if the use an expander ball.

How many have brass fail due to split.necks? Doesn't annealing reduce this problem.

How many find that loose primer pockets are the.end of the.useful life of a piece of.brass?

 

[dkhunt14]

I have never had a cracked neck and I size a little harder then most and use more tension also. Sometimes the Pockets get a little loose and once in awhile I loose one. I shoot near the upper end though because of shooting 1000 yard BR. I don't like shooting the cases more then about 15 times. It seems the accuracy starts degrading and new brass always shoots good. Matt

 

[Toby Bradshaw]

I have neck sizing dies, I do not use them but I have them just in case.

Stay cryptic, my friend.

 

[spife7980]

So i have a simple question for the full length sizing crowd. The neck sizers say the.full length crowd is overworking their brass especially if the use an expander ball.
How many have brass fail due to split.necks? Doesn't annealing reduce this problem.
How many find that loose primer pockets are the.end of the.useful life of a piece of.brass?

Its over working it if one is of the opinion that working it at all is over working it.
Get good dies and measure well to avoid over sizing in dramatic fashion and you will significantly reduce the amount of work hardening. And yes, annealing will help with the split necks by returning it to its pre work hardened condition (if annealed properly that is). Ive had just as many split necks back when I was neck sizing as I have since Ive been full length sizing and honestly thats just a one or two here or there and not ever a significant problem. Actually probably more when I was neck sizing now that I think back about it. I am in the camp that finds that the primer pockets go out before the rest gives up.

 

[dmoran]

..... I have never retired match brass for split necks......

Me neither.... but maybe its a brand thing or caliber? Primarily use Lapua myself, and just never any issues.
Often read warnings of: "over working the necks" leading to splits, but never have issues with it myself. Even with brass that have dozens of firings, never annealed, and non-tight neck.
Except for over-sizing created issues, really have never seen work hardening in general to be an issue, but read plenty of warnings against it. I actually prefer work hardened brass in my 6Dasher's and most my match sets have never been annealed. I like how they "spring back" the harder they get, that I attribute to be brass memory.
Can't help but feel its in part, a myth.
Donovan

 

[dkhunt14]

What happens if through testing we decide our rifle shoots better with more clearance?

BTW, I have never retired match brass for split necks. It's always been either primer picket getting looser. Or just decided to make new because I wanted fresh brass. I've seen guys that don't anneal and FL size run many many cycled brass.

Tom

My thoughts Exactly! Then throw in more bump and tension. Matt

 

[BoydAllen]

Come on guys. This has become apples and oranges again. What is more clearance for a benchrest competitor is a lot closer than a factory chamber, factory die guy can expect to get.

On the annealing thing, it is fine if along with greater case life you get the accuracy that you expect, but if annealing has a negative effect on accuracy is that a trade that you would want to make? Besides, there is so much bad info out there on annealing I hate to point anyone in that direction if he has no way to sort the bad from the good.

I think that the bottom line is to do your own testing and believe your targets.

 

[mike a]

Me neither.... but maybe its a brand thing or caliber? Primarily use Lapua myself, and just never any issues.
Often read warnings of: "over working the necks" leading to splits, but never have issues with it myself. Even with brass that have dozens of firings, never annealed, and non-tight neck.
Except for over-sizing created issues, really have never seen work hardening in general to be an issue, but read plenty of warnings against it. I actually prefer work hardened brass in my 6Dasher's and most my match sets have never been annealed. I like how they "spring back" the harder they get, that I attribute to be brass memory.
Can't help but feel its in part, a myth.
Donovan

I'm surprised you Don't anneal. I though everyone on this site did. I've read loads of pro anneal posts ( on this site )but next to none con anneal. I hate annealing. Maybe I'll try without.

 

[dmoran]

@mike a
Betting there just as many BenchRest shooters who don't then do. I did anneal back in my 243-Ackley days, but hardly any with my 6Dasher's (since 2005). In my own testing, never seen the gain with the 6Dasher's. And for the most part like I wrote, the harder they get, the more I like em'. Last July i did have @tom Amp anneal a couple small sets to try it out. Liked what I saw but more so after they had a couple firings on them. Sort to speak, "Amp +2" worked out well (haven't shot them since) for me. May get an Amp some day and ring it out. Like what I see from the Amp approach then by flame annealing.

Biggest thing I can suggest is to test the difference for yourself.
Your own results is all that matters, no matter what anyone else is doing.
Good Luck
Donovan

 

[LHSmith]

FWIW -in my knowledge of short range Benchrest.... 6 ppc is the predominate chambering for group shooting. Majority still load ( typically the same 25 cases) between matches ( FYI -a match is the 7 minute period allowed to complete 5 record targets). They do this to fine tweak the tune of the rifle because usually atmospheric conditions change between relays. That subtle change will actually affect group sizes. Therefore, by learned experience, the shooter might adjust the powder charge (+ or -), and/or change seat depth ( + or -) or neck tension (+ or -). Cartridge headspace is very critical to accuracy at this level of competition, so many shooters will try each FL sized case in the action (with FP spring removed) looking for the cases to exhibit the same amount of resistance on bolt closure ( desired amount of resistance varies from shooter to shooter). If a case needs more shoulder set-back, then they adjust the die in 0.0005" to 0.001" increments until the case has the same "feel" as the other cases. This is where die micro-adjusters or a set of die shims become a necessity (You might only have 15 minutes to clean the barrel and reload).
Generally, group shooters do not anneal and prefer to use new brass (after fireforming at least 2x) when too many cases develop issues associated with work hardening.
On the other end of the short range BR spectrum- Score shooting- the 30 BR is the predominate chambering. IME the majority here come to the match tournament pre-loaded. For the competitor that has a descent honest barrel the 30 BR has a much wider tuning window ----meaning usually there is very little load tweaking required to maintain top accuracy. IME most 30 BR users do anneal for economy and the benefit of neck tension uniformity.
Both 6 PPC and 30 BR competitors have chambers requiring turned necks. I have never had a split neck, or incipient case head separation in these 2 rounds or even a .222 HV that I occasionally use in competition. I lose these cases by enlarged primer pockets and dinged necks.

 

[fguffey]

How many have brass fail due to split.necks? Doesn't annealing reduce this problem.

Yes it does. And then there is another method and or technique; the reloader can get creative when making the case neck thicker but that would require the reloader to determine how to measure the difference between the diameter of the chamber neck and case neck. When my case necks travel I want to know by 'how much'.

F. Guffey

 

[ireload2]

I bet you cannot make the neck of a given case thicker. jajajajajajaja

Yes it does. And then there is another method and or technique; the reloader can get creative when making the case neck thicker but that would require the reloader to determine how to measure the difference between the diameter of the chamber neck and case neck. When my case necks travel I want to know by 'how much'.

F. Guffey

 

[JRS]

I bet you cannot make the neck of a given case thicker. jajajajajajaja

Have you necked down cartridge brass

 

[ireload2]

Try some Guffey logic.
Find a process to make a given case neck thicker without changing anything else.
If you neck it down it is no longer the original case. It is something else.

Have you necked down cartridge brass

 

[LHSmith]

When my case necks travel I want to know by 'how much'.

F. Guffey

Well Professor Semantics....look whose using reloading vernacular that cannot be found in ANY reloading manual. Case necks do NOT "travel"- physically impossible. Cartridge brass under pressure in a confined chamber can "migrate" but it does not travel. And then there are those that think they know, but all they really know is how to be a contrarian.