Savage Floating Bolt Heads

[Someoldguy]

So perhaps I am missing something . .. .

I own 3 Savage center fire rifles. And I am familiar with the Savage Bolt design, IE bolt body, wave washer, bolt head retaining pin and bolt head. This is all well and good, but . . . .

If the idea is to provide for bolt face alignment to the bore, don't you need 2 axis of alignment? IE - X, Y, pitch and yaw? And this bolt head retaining pin essentially provides only 1 axis . . . . Yes? Perhaps the design assumes/depends upon a minimum machine tolerance? IE - Savage does not plan to correct for, say, mis-alignments in excess of .003"? This is MY arbitrary number, but I hope you get the idea. (?)

And this is assuming the barrel threads are concentric to the bore and the bolt lugs square to the barrel threads? And if there was confidence that this was true, why worry about a floating bolt head at all?

I'm trying to wrap my head around receiver truing. If I'm off in the weeds, feel free to tell me where my thinking is in error.

Thanks.

 

[memilanuk]

Don't over-think it. It was a production step to offset stacking tolerances, that happened to work out better than most would have expected.

 

[NorCalMikie]

Keep it simple!!

 

[RWO]

The interchangeable bolt head allows all bolt bodies to be identical. Change the head to change calibers as necessary. This saves money in production. The so called "floating" aspect has been overblown as is usual on the internet. It floats because it has to be assembled by hand on the assembly line. It can accommodate very slight dimensional irregularities in the lock-up, but given today's machine tools, the need is minimal, no matter what the gunsmiths want you to believe.

RWO

 

[Someoldguy]

The interchangeable bolt head allows all bolt bodies to be identical. Change the head to change calibers as necessary. This saves money in production. The so called "floating" aspect has been overblown as is usual on the internet. It floats because it has to be assembled by hand on the assembly line. It can accommodate very slight dimensional irregularities in the lock-up, but given today's machine tools, the need is minimal, no matter what the gunsmiths want you to believe.

RWO

So the 'floating bolt head' does not 'float', or at least not very well. As I suspected, but may not have articulated well.

Then when one seeks to true a Savage action, squaring the receiver face and lugs in concentricity to the receiver threads is desirable, I presume. (?) And the degree of 'need' depends upon the particular receiver, I again presume. (?)

Now, given the multi-piece bolt assembly, IE - bolt body, wave washer, bolt head retaining pin and bolt head, is there anything MEANINGFUL that can be 'trued' on this assembly?

 

[Someoldguy]

Don't over-think it. It was a production step to offset stacking tolerances, that happened to work out better than most would have expected.

I can see how it is a 'forgiving' design. Just seems to me that it is mostly a production - oriented solution, and not so much an approach to accuracy improvements.

Perhaps that is just a re-statement of what you already said?

 

[centershot]

Where is a source of the bolt heads other than PTG?

 

[284winner]

Where is a source of the bolt heads other than PTG?

Brownells, Midway and Sharp shooter supply (if they still carry them).

 

[savagedasher]

Brownells, Midway and Sharp shooter supply (if they still carry them).

I think you will find the bolt heads sold are all factory heads . Kiff heads are cnc made and aren't investment casting like other others sold . Larry

 

[284winner]

I think you will find the bolt heads sold are all factory heads . Kiff heads are cnc made and aren't investment casting like other others sold . Larry

Yes that is probably correct. I do know my buddy bought an aftermarket bolt head and the gunsmith had to machine it some to make it work.

 

[savagedasher]

Yes that is probably correct. I do know my buddy bought an aftermarket bolt head and the gunsmith had to machine it some to make it work.

I have several and two have No ejection hole
Everyone is the same not like the factory heads . I can take the bolts with the kiff heads and inter change from one action to the other . The factory head all take a different head space . To answer your statement I did with mine also. Larry

 

[284winner]

I have several and two have No ejection hole
Everyone is the same not like the factory heads . I can take the bolts with the kiff heads and inter change from one action to the other . The factory head all take a different head space . To answer your statement I did with mine also. Larry

Good to know. I'll be shopping for one soon. I'll likely go to PT&G for one.

 

[centershot]

Good to know. I'll be shopping for one soon. I'll likely go to PT&G for one.

The reason I asked about someone other than PTG is that a friend of mine bought one from them and had to send it back more than once.

 

[Will Henry]

I built some bolt heads simply because it was an expedient way to build the bolt. I could build the body of easily machinable carbon steel and use a high impact resistant alloy for the bolt head. The fit was close enough that there was no float. Most Savage heads don't float either and I think the whole "floating bolt head" thing was brought up to excuse those that fit sloppily. WH

 

[savagedasher]

They do float . It was a simple fix for productivity . With changing just the bolt head only one bolt was needed . The floating head cured another problem . Many chambers aren't in the center of the threads . I have seen barrels with the chamber being off the treads .012 difference or .006 per side the head floated enough to center .
Why did someone think the barrel cut with a hatchet shoot so good . Smile Larry

 

[hoz53]

They do float . It was a simple fix for productivity . With changing just the bolt head only one bolt was needed . The floating head cured another problem . Many chambers aren't in the center of the threads . I have seen barrels with the chamber being off the treads .012 difference or .006 per side the head floated enough to center .
Why did someone think the barrel cut with a hatchet shoot so good . Smile Larry

I sure believe some of the savage chambers arent centered. The one ive got though the bolthead wont move back and forth on the bolt.

 

[Riesel]

Savage built quite a reputation for out of the box accuracy using their "floating bolt head" on their economy priced rifles. Now there are many manufactures building like minded rifles for all the reasons above, ie price and accuracy. As I recall, some target action manufacture is now making an action with the floating and changeable bolt head. I've built a number of rifles on Savage and Stevens actions and they have all been very good shooters, not BR, but dang fine hunting steel banging rifles. I apologize for any redundancy. (does this forum have spell check?. I sure could use it)

 

[Will Henry]

I have two Savage rifles in the shop right now. Neither bolt head shows any perceptible "float". WH

 

[savagedasher]

I have two Savage rifles in the shop right now. Neither bolt head shows any perceptible "float". WH

Have you removed the barrel?
If you have check from the chamber ID to the threads Many very .005 in distance the floating head adjust for the difference so you don't have pressure on one side of the case .
Larry

 

[hoz53]

Have you removed the barrel?
If you have check from the chamber ID to the threads Many very .005 in distance the floating head adjust for the difference so you don't have pressure on one side of the case .
Larry

I have a savage action without a barrel right now I'm going to check.