Why do we mock that which we don't understand?
Considering a 22-243.
- Thread starter tjassman84
- Start date
i'll probably get flamed for this but here goes. Im tired of always hearing the barrel burner argument. Some people don't care. I can go to my shop and set my barrel back or just replace it if i want. I know people who can go through 10 barrels a year and never blink. I know a guy that shoots a 22/243 on a dog town. Takes several guns with him at a time, then rebarrels them for the next trip. I know a guy that drives a ferrari as a daily driver, wouldn't work for me, Ill stick with my truck. Just because it not practical for someone doesn't mean its not normal for another. Some people like the biggest, fastest, hotrod they can get. Barrels are just part of the cost, nothing more.
TAJ45
Silver $$ Contributor
There are two "Cheetahs".
The Mark I flavor is a near twin to the .22-243AI, sharing the 40 ° shoulder. The Cheetah Mark II has a 28 ° shoulder. Main difference is that the Cheetahs are built off necking down (small primer pocket) .308Palma brass. Whereas, the .22-243Win & AI are a simple step down of .243Win brass.
I had a .22-243Win for a few years, it opened my eyes to the capability of what a fast twist .224 hotrod can do. I could plaster my 1K steel target relative ease, courtesy of Alliant powders & 75 Amaxs.
Fast forward a couple years, compared my .22-243Win case side by side to a .22-243AI. That got the wheels turning on how to make a very good thing, better!
Side by side:
Cool thing about the .22-243Win is, there is brass, everywhere for it. Heck, I just picked up 50pcs. of Hornady at the local range, for free. Or, you can load with Lapua & roll in style.
For reloading, if you have .243Win dies already, you're either halfway home...or already there! A .243Win bushing die with proper bushing is all ya need for sizing. And, a .243Win seater will work fine for heavy .224 bullets.
Same rules apply for .22-243AI dies, all ya need is a 243AI bushing die. The 243AI seater works fine.
Middlested is a cool round, almost like a .22SLR. But, if I'm fireforming, I'll go 'full monty' and blow it all the way out to AI & enjoy the extra capacity. Beyond that, the Middlested is gonna need a custom die if you wish to FL size at all. Might get away with a .243AI sizer? For that, the net gain in performance is negligible over a .22-243Win. I have 'one off' wildcats & custom dies, but only because there wasn't an easy alternative. Simple fact is, a .22-243Win is just that...easy!
For easy peasy, throttle up a .22-243Win with RL-22 or 17. By the time you need to trim brass, it'll be toast. And ya won't fret losing one, here & there...
Or, fireform that .22-243Win to an AI. More capacity = ability to run a full case of slow burn powder like H1000 or Retumbo. Might just eek ya out a couple hundred more rounds on the back end, and you'll still hit that 35-3700fps 'sweet spot' where a 75-80gr bullet seems to perform optimally, without over-stressing the bullet...
Performance wise, whatever a .22Creed can do, a .22-243Win has already been doing for a long time. .22Creed is just the new kid on the block to reach the same end. If Lapua 6.5Creed (smal pocket) brass comes out, you'll need two steps to get to .224. Whereas, Lapua .243 brass is one step. Up to you, if you think the percieved benefit of (small pocket) Creed is worth the extra step?
.22x47L is a little badazz, but you'll need to pressure those cases to the roof to match a .22-243AI. And likely, that will negatively impact barrel life that is already short on a .224 hotrod. Up to you, if you consider that a good idea?
Wild card (for me) with the .22-243AI is using RL-26. I still haven't been able to find any! Bet that would make a .22-243AI even more of a short action monster than it already is...
Obviously, we've all got our favorites! If you've got components for any of 'em, that makes decisions easier. Regardless of what ya go with, you'll have ALOT of fun!!!
I am somewhat acquainted with one of the previous posters. He told me that in his years is shooting rock chuck's, pdogs, coyotes etc, to the tune of 100s of thou rounds, the 6 AI bbls lasted considerably longer than the 22-243. Same smiths, same actions/ bbls etc etc.....iowords - apples to apples over years of field "testing". The 6 Rem AI bbls even with the extra powder capacity lasted noticeably LONGER than the Middle stead iterations.
After being introduced to the turbulence point concept, our discussion then morphed into him musing that the longer neck of the 6mm Rem may well have been the reason for the + on bbl life. Now some have said this has been disproved. I haven't done enough reading on that yet to either agree or defend.
We are working on a 6 XC with a long neck, making them from Palma brass. He feels the small primer pocket is a case life extender from his testing. It's gonna be fun this Spring here in IN........
I never understood the barrel life issue either. I've owned the bragging rights at a couple ranges over the last 20 years with my 22-378 Wby AI. Shoot three rounds with the 60gr Nosler solid base bullets over 5400fps in the mid-.3's it's a sight to see... I built it on a Savage SS and was able to buy six barrels from them with a 1:9" twist originally meant for the .223 cartridge. 200 rounds a barrel, that's a year a barrel. Not everything has to be practical.
Rich
Rich
Let's face it. The average guy using it to shoot coyotes or ghogs won't shoot that much in 2 years even if they throw in some steel plates and other playing. Even every two years spending 500.00 on a new barrel is chicken feed. Put it in perspective because for the fun thats brought into our lives shooting these barrel burners is unequalled in my opinion.
Another option that I have done that works well is, I have taken a 308 and when it was shot out I turned it into a 30-06, then a 300WM and finally into 300 RUM, if the new case is larger that it's predecessor you can do that with out even shorting the barrel. except for a few thou to start with a fresh surface, I have done this many times IE: 223 to 22-250 to 220 swift, and many other calibers 6mm, 25, 6.5 and 7mm.
Dean
Dean
Don,t get me wrong. I did not say don,t build on. Just pointing out when your grand kids get it , they will not hit the ground. But thanks for the heads up on the 223 and 308. I did not know they were for target shooting WOW.. Thanks tommy Mc..
That post was not meant as a slam or a snide remark, I was just pointing out that they are two calibers with a high life expectancy or round count before giving up the ghost, good threads and posters are few and far between when talking about wildcatting. And "Barrel Burner always seems to find it's way in like it's a deal breaker, and can't be overcome with simple solutions. Anyways if this is where this thread is going I am going to remove myself from it, I have better things to do than subject myself to this, IE: Burn excessive amounts of powder though hideously small bores, it seems to happen a lot on this forum.
Dean
Dean
I have a 22/6mm Ackley that I built years ago to shoot 80 gr Sierras at extremely flat trajectories out to 1000 yards and bucks the wind very well. I heard the same criticism about how it would be shot out just finding a load etc. etc. etc. I have multiple kills at 1000 plus yards on groundhogs. Probably one of the best cartridges for shooting coyotes out to 1000 yards with the correct game killing performance bullets. EXTREMLY flat trajectories which will be an edge when a coyote doesn't give you but seconds to make a range/trajectory call. Low recoil, minimum bullet mass to reduce ricochet risks around farms/cattle and very good energy/killing performance on coyotes, especially with the 75 gr amax. The 22/243 is even more efficient and is a very good choice for varmint/predator hunting with 75-80 gr bullets. My barrel still shoots good and throat still looks good. A lot of hunting can be done with 800-1000 Rd life expectancy especially when there is only 1-3 shots at a time before cooling. I do not regret chambering in the 22/6mm caliber.
nakneker
Gold $$ Contributor
Exactly!! Ive probably dropped close to 50k on my mill, lathe, surface grinder, tooling and all that other fun stuff. I worry if what i ate for dinner is going to give me indigestion more than if I'm going to have to get a new barrel next year.
You better not leave this thread Dean... because you know as well as all the other Wild-Catters, that these calibers are never entered into lightly, and are challenging for the Strong of Heart...but not for the weak of Pink.
My gunsmith would like that, about 12 good days of groundhog hunting. Many days we shoot 50 to 75 shots. Matt
Interesting stuff!
I'd be curious to know more, regarding which actual .224 cartridge, barrel twist rate & powder used when drawing those conclusions. Also, would like to learn what relative chamber pressure each were runnin' at, as we all know that how one loads a particular cartridge can have quite the significant effect on barrel life. In that regard, any type of fair or tangible barrel life expectancy comparison should be performed at similar case pressure. IMHO, that'd really be the only way to deduce if / how the cartridge itself factored in to the equation...
Far as I know, there is only one "Middlested", not iterations of it. The Middlested settles between the .22-243Win & .22-243AI in both shoulder angle & overall case capacity.
Not to discount your friend, as it sounds as though he's shot a heckuva lot! But, in the case of a properly (long) throated, fast twist .22-243AI fed on slow burn powder, I'd be curious to know just how many more rounds a 6mm AI would allow for? And how many x fired that Rem brass could handle, compared to Lapua .243 brass? Not to mention comparing a long action cartridge to a short action one...
For conversation, my friend had over 1,300rds on his .22-243AI (Retumbo) before he pulled it. Subsequently, he uses it to fireform brass for his new barrel(s) and has found that its still shooting consistently well <3/4moa when making brass. In hindsight, reckoned he pulled it too soon?
As others have been sayin', when you're talking wildcat hotrods, barrel life becomes an afterthought. But if there's one out there that can make 1,200rds when others are making 800-1K pushing the same bullet, then that's something I feel worthy of considering...
Great discussion, all! Thanks for sharing!
When I decided to go 2506ai, same old story its overbore ! You won't get many round out of barrel, well some people think its rounds out of the barrel,
Its what you get out of the round !!
I rebarrelled 1998, I don't shoot hundreds of rounds at a time 30 round on pigs on a trip would be average
>< and I'm just rebuilding now,
When you build a Rifle you can have what YOU want because thats what you value, hotrods are hotrods they burn tyres & fuel so select colour and start
Driving
Steve
Its what you get out of the round !!
I rebarrelled 1998, I don't shoot hundreds of rounds at a time 30 round on pigs on a trip would be average
>< and I'm just rebuilding now,
When you build a Rifle you can have what YOU want because thats what you value, hotrods are hotrods they burn tyres & fuel so select colour and start
Driving
Steve
I've used a 22-243 Middlestead for about 30 years now. For me its a specialist gun, I take it out for coyotes on windy days. One of my shooting buddies had both iterations of the CHeetah before he passed, he was a fan. We never really noticed the difference between them, though with some powders the small primers gave issue in the cold. I've also used a fast twist 22-250 AI (very similar performance, a little slower than the Middlestead) . Also a 224 Clarke, though I haven't shot that one much. I think were I do to it again, I'd go straight 22-243 in an 7-8 twist barrel. Simplify brass issues. FWIW - dan
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