What is the differance between an F Open 1000yd rifle and a 1000 yd BR Rifle?

[hoz53]

I only shot f class one time, but yes I see that same thing. I tried a hot 6.5 and it did okay through about 10-12 rounds into a string, and then decide to throw vertical pretty bad. Jay told me the secret to getting the vertical out of my 6.5 was to screw on a 7mm barrel lol.

Tom

Thanks for that info Tom

 

[hoz53]

Wouldn't you like to be on ground and have the blast of sand in your face .
That would seem like why I would think they are not allowed. Larry

I was thinking something like that but I dont know for sure why that is the rule so Im not gonna guess. And what about those 6 presses in the shed you have for me?

 

[hoz53]

The rifles are very similar. If you want to shoot both, build a 17lb gun on a 3" stock, dual port dasher. You, will have fun in both. I am sure you will prefer one over the other and decide which way to go from there. Recoil is a concern. In f open the 284 seems to be the best compromise or recoil, ballistics, and accuracy. In br recoil and accuracy take priority. In br you need to be able to shoot quickly with the most accurate possible cartridge. 2-3" 5 shoot groups are pretty common for the top shooters. In f-open you need to be able to hold up over long strings in hot weather in the prone. Changing conditions and the shooters possition make recoil and ballistics even more important. So, its ok to give up a little raw accuracy for better bc. But theres a limit before recoil takes its toll, so thats why we see the 284 so much.

Thanks Alex Thats some new(to me) good info that I was looking for and will help.

 

[savagedasher]

I was thinking something like that but I dont know for sure why that is the rule so Im not gonna guess. And what about those 6 presses in the shed you have for me?

If I get some time I will tell you first . They could be a pile of rust . Larry

 

[dkhunt14]

I don't know Ray.. I know that the rifles would be up to the task. However, whether their loading techniques would be or not, that I can't comment on. Now some of the shooters, given at least one season shooting L/R BR, I believe would. But most F-Class shooters are a dedicated lot to F-Class. How many would crossover I can not say.

I have no doubt that my .260A.I. would be very competitive at 1000. I also know I would not! I think in the hands of a really good Benchrest shooter my rifle would do well, maybe even win!

Ben from reading all your posts, I think you would do well. Especially after a match or two. It isn't rocket science. Most important thing is getting your gun working. Loading is also important but I think you would do ok. Matt

 

[hoz53]

I think I can help you with this answer. When they "found" the 7 SAUM, as an F-Open cartridge, most shooters were using H4350, pushing 180 VLD's to "about" 2950. This was a recipe for very short barrel life. Accuracy was great, e.s.'s were great, scores were great BUT replacing barrels every time you turned around, not so good. It has been recently found that by running slower powders you can substantially increase barrel life. Even with the increase in barrel life, you are still looking at about 1500-1600 rounds. A .284 will go right at 2000.. That's a solid 20 percent longer barrel life. Having said that, I believe that now that there are a plethora of newer slower powders, the SAUM will once again be looked at favorably! AND if you consider that using the new Berger 195 at around 2840 will completely outclass ANY 284 shooting the 180 Hybrids / VLD's, I guarantee you it will be looked at again! This is my opinion anyhow. Time will let us know if I am correct or not.. But do not be under the wrong impression, a .284 is still a MIGHTY F-Open rifle, especially at 1000 yards.

Thanks Dots thats some great info on barrel life and calibers I was looking for.

 

[savagedasher]

Thanks Dots thats some great info on barrel life and calibers I was looking for.

I think we had a f class shooter hand us a good grubbing at 600 last Saturday . Larry

 

[dkhunt14]

One difference I see is in stock design. Most dedicated "F" class rigs have adjustable cheek pieces to get the proper "cheek weld". It is highly undesierable to have ANY cheek weld, or any other kind of weld for that matter, in LRBR. Also, and it may just be me, but for BR I like my ST 1000......it sits "lower" in the bags compared to my MBR Tracker. I am MUCH more comfaratable shooting the MBR in "F" class...it sits higher in the bags and I can get my head in the scope much easier. When I shoot the ST1000 in "F" class I need to build my rear bag up way higher and set the front rest up way higher to get comfy.

Just my .02,

Tod

Todd I see the trend going to lower wider profiles. Not as many McMillan stocks as a few years ago. A stock like the PRT low rider or f-class would do well in both. Just have to make it 3 inch for f-class. Guys are putting UHMW pieces on the front to make them 6 inches. With that you could switch back and forth. Matt

 

[dkhunt14]

Why is the 300 WSM favored over the 7mm short magnums? Just seems to me a lighter bullet with the same speed and BC would be an advantage. I must be missing something. Thanks

Accuracy, is the main reason. Quite a few 7WSM have shown up and they just are not quite good enough. Although I did see a 7SAUM win a bit. Matt

 

[dkhunt14]

Wouldn't you like to be on ground and have the blast of sand in your face .
That would seem like why I would think they are not allowed. Larry

That would easily be taken care of with a tarp or mats. It's the noise and muzzle blasts. Matt

 

[dkhunt14]

I think we had a f class shooter hand us a good grubbing at 600 last Saturday . Larry

Was that gongs or paper? Matt

 

[savagedasher]

That would easily be taken care of with a tarp or mats. It's the noise and muzzle blasts. Matt

Have you read how much they have complained on paid target help .
I think not . Smile Larry

 

[savagedasher]

Was that gongs or paper? Matt

Paper 0nly had 6 shooters . Had 12 for the gong . Larry

 

[savagedasher]

Was that gongs or paper? Matt

We never had a target under 2. 1/2 " Larry

 

[hoz53]

I have started working with one of the second generation McMillan F-Open stocks. You may have read the little introductory piece that was published in the Bulletin. I have been thinking about what it would take to make it into a 1,000 yd. light rifle. Essentially the main issues are the differences in weight between the 22# that F Class allows, and the 17# limit for a 1,000yd bench rifle, and the forend width. The difference in the usual caliber selections for each can be handled with a barrel swap. If push comes to shove, I can do a couple of things to the existing stock to lighten it. I can pull out the movable parts of the adjustable butt and substitute lighter parts that do not adjust, and I can remove most of the adjustable cheek piece and its mechanism, since I would probably be keeping my face off of the comb for bench use. Then there is the issue of forend width. Benchrest is pretty much a run what you want proposition, while F Class is limited to a few thousandths under 3 inches. The first thing that I would do is to try shooting it as a Dasher, as is, and then if I thought that a wider forend would help, I would have Alex Wheeler make me a pretty polished adapter plate, with rails on the underside, secured with T nuts in the bottom of the barrel channel, thin to keep things close to the barrel, with some tracking adjustability (one hole slightly slotted) built in.

Hi Boyd--So you are going to shoot some LR(Fclass and BR)? This is what I am planning to do. What action are you using? Handling the barrel swaps wouldnt be difficult for me but Id try to make sure to get an action I could use for the different calibers I would be using. For stocks I think I would have to try different designs to decide what would work for me. I will look at that Mc stock. Those are good ideas about the stock. Im looking for matches in my area so I can go check this stuff out. I should probably start with a 17# dasher but if I get an action that will be large enough to accomidate a 284 will that cause some problems with the dasher? Im having fun figuring it all out Thanks

 

[hoz53]

If I get some time I will tell you first . They could be a pile of rust . Larry

Thanks and Florida? Holy Cow- Do you have one of those presses fastened to a lawn chair so you can sit out on the beach and watch the scenery when you load?

 

[hoz53]

Accuracy, is the main reason. Quite a few 7WSM have shown up and they just are not quite good enough. Although I did see a 7SAUM win a bit. Matt

Thank You that is interesting. I would think the accuracy potential would be the same or even favor a 7(just my newb perspective), but I see thats not the case.

 

[BoydAllen]

The stock is a writing project. I have several barrels that fit the action, primarily because it is threaded the same as a small shank Savage, and I have one. The action that I am using for the project is a short, single shot, target port, Bighorn. I will be evaluating it in several stages, primarily shooting from a bench, because I believe that it is easiest to work up loads, and evaluate accuracy that way. From what I have seen, the only issues using the same stock for both kinds of competition are quite solvable. On the action, although one might have an issue using a short action with a .284 if a magazine was to be part of the mix, I do not think that it will be much of an issue for a single shot. My action is a LBRPRE ( I shoot left handed, because I am left eye dominant.) when the flat .308 sized bolt head is fitted I think that it should be fast enough for the rapid fire 1,000 yard bench game, and although a RBRP might be a little more convenient for shooting on the ground, because of the time delay for each shot that is inherent in F Class I do not think that that there would be a problem, although if I were designing a single purpose rifle for F class, I would probably opt for RBRP. Configured as it is, the stock carries more weight than is needed for bench competition, because of the weight of the adjustable cheek piece and butt hardware, but as I wrote in my earlier post, if that weight becomes an issue, it will be easy to deal with, as I described. for this test, all that I will probably do is come up with a realistic number for the weight that can be pared off make staying under 17# easier. In its present form, the stock fits me very well, and is very well adapted to shooting from a front rest and rear bag. I can scarcely see how it could be better compared to any 3" wide forend design, and if I need a wider stock, my earlier post describes how I would deal with that. As it stands it is very comfortable for the shooter, and seems to have the bag interface geometry, and torque control issues well in hand.

 

[NewLiberty]

All very interesting. The PRS guys seem to be drifting to 6's and 6.5's. They're shooting out to 1000 and 1000+. Why are they going with smaller bores and F-class going 7's? Seems it would be about the same game caliber wise.

 

[dkhunt14]

All very interesting. The PRS guys seem to be drifting to 6's and 6.5's. They're shooting out to 1000 and 1000+. Why are they going with smaller bores and F-class going 7's? Seems it would be about the same game caliber wise.

In bench rest, score and group counts, in F-Class it's score. So you need to stay centered in both. Also both are shot off rests and the guns weigh more, longer barrels also. PRS they are really running and gunning in awkward positioms, recoil would matter and they wouldn't want 30 to 32 inch barrels. Matt