25-06 vs.25-06 ackley actual experience

[Wingnut00]

So like the title curious of real world experience in velocity increase. I shoot the straight 25-06 with 115 Berger a touch over 3200 with incredible accuracy so what would a guy gain with the ackley version. I know I would gain brass life so that would be a benefit so let me hear your thoughts. Thanks.

 

[STOMP442]

I would imagine the gains being similar to the 6.5-06. 100-200fps depending on your barrel and the powders being used. I am always an advocate for Ackley improved cartridges though.

 

[Frankr]

well I built a 25/06AI long time ago on a trued rem 700 and a 28" Pac Nor light Palma Barrel..I was told by the gunsmith that I would not be happy because the one he had done for himself and a few friends they never got any speed out of them.So I decided to go with the 28" light Palma Barrel. I used Lapua 30/06 brass reformed and neck turned.All the case prep you can do..It shot well. I don't think we had 115's back then I used 117 sierra's . I tried to get 100GR Nosler Partitions to shoot but they did not..The 117's with a full case of RL25 was 3,450 FPS and under 1/2" five shot groups at 100 yards. I would say .350's to .450's. I PUSHED HARD but I could only get a 85gr Nosler BT to 3,990 FPS I tried to break 4K but I was sticking the bolt at 3,990 and they shot around the same just under 1/2". I Ground Hog hunted with the rifle some, deer hunted a few times. But yea After all the experimenting was done I lost interest and really can see no reason for the 25 cal they are like the poorest Ballistic coefficient bullet fore their weight . I had like 300 rounds on it and the throat never moved,i sold it to a fellow cheep and he loved it. I like the 6 bore or 7 bore much better bullet and Higher BC's per weight. Better sectional density and that makes them hammer on game in the field.
I want to build a 240 WM on a 1-8 twist..I know a guy who did and it shoots very well.
I also know a guy shooting the B-115 VLD out of a 257 WM just over 3,500 FPS seems to kill well.

To me other than it is really flat out to 400 Yards do to the High MV.
I like my 6 bore 115's with a .550 BC at 3,100 FPS good to 1K or a bit further.

 

[stacy]

I HAVE A 25-06 ACKLEY AND LOVE IT BUT I SHOOT 87GR FOWLERS HP OUT 26'' 10 TWIST HART BARREL REM 700 HS STOCK 3800FPS !!!!!!!! NEVER TRIED HEAVYS IN IT

 

[Wingnut00]

Thanks guys for the replies. Guess I should have said what my intent was. What I use the 25 for is deer and with the 115's it is incredible deer slayer. And pushin my bullets that fast would pushin em say 100-200 fps faster make deer that much deader, probably not but I could have a lot less come ups at say 500yds and have more speed at that range. And for this little thought I'm thinkin with this little idea speed kills. Don't know. I realize that the 25 caliber bullets ain't really great animal droppers at a mile but would the extra hundred fifty foot seconds (blow bigger holes) kill deer quicker(more ethical kills). I really love the dog crap out of my 25-06 but would the ackley be better. I to love the 6's and I can crank the 115's out of my 6comp at 3100 with way better bc and I know the 7's r way more better to but kind of love my 25 for little ol deer. Where I hunt deer the longest shot I would have would be bout 600 and ain't scared to do that with my straight 25 but would the ackley be better. I say yes just cause of speed. But then my next question. I'm a speed freak so would 115 Berger huntin bullet stay together at a cool 3400fps reliably. Maybe just rambling but just thinkin while I'm sippin on a cold PBR.

 

[varmintshooter]

Thanks guys for the replies. Guess I should have said what my intent was. What I use the 25 for is deer and with the 115's it is incredible deer slayer. And pushin my bullets that fast would pushin em say 100-200 fps faster make deer that much deader, probably not but I could have a lot less come ups at say 500yds and have more speed at that range. And for this little thought I'm thinkin with this little idea speed kills. Don't know. I realize that the 25 caliber bullets ain't really great animal droppers at a mile but would the extra hundred fifty foot seconds (blow bigger holes) kill deer quicker(more ethical kills). I really love the dog crap out of my 25-06 but would the ackley be better. I to love the 6's and I can crank the 115's out of my 6comp at 3100 with way better bc and I know the 7's r way more better to but kind of love my 25 for little ol deer. Where I hunt deer the longest shot I would have would be bout 600 and ain't scared to do that with my straight 25 but would the ackley be better. I say yes just cause of speed. But then my next question. I'm a speed freak so would 115 Berger huntin bullet stay together at a cool 3400fps reliably. Maybe just rambling but just thinkin while I'm sippin on a cold PBR.

Yep just rambling

 

[Wingnut00]

Yep just rambling

Probably so but instead of sayin that how bout just givin ur opinion or experience.

 

[stacy]

LIKE BEEN SAID BETTER BRASS LIFE 100-200 FPS FASTER W/RITE BULLET POWDER COMBO THE REST IS UP TO YOU THE COST OF RECHAMBER DIES ETC. I THINK YOU BE PLEASED WITH IT BUT I HAVE ONE THE CHOICE IS YOURS !!!!!!!!

 

[JRS]

well I built a 25/06AI long time ago on a trued rem 700 and a 28" Pac Nor light Palma Barrel..I was told by the gunsmith that I would not be happy because the one he had done for himself and a few friends they never got any speed out of them.So I decided to go with the 28" light Palma Barrel. I used Lapua 30/06 brass reformed and neck turned.All the case prep you can do..It shot well. I don't think we had 115's back then I used 117 sierra's . I tried to get 100GR Nosler Partitions to shoot but they did not..The 117's with a full case of RL25 was 3,450 FPS and under 1/2" five shot groups at 100 yards. I would say .350's to .450's. I PUSHED HARD but I could only get a 85gr Nosler BT to 3,990 FPS I tried to break 4K but I was sticking the bolt at 3,990 and they shot around the same just under 1/2". I Ground Hog hunted with the rifle some, deer hunted a few times. But yea After all the experimenting was done I lost interest and really can see no reason for the 25 cal they are like the poorest Ballistic coefficient bullet fore their weight . I had like 300 rounds on it and the throat never moved,i sold it to a fellow cheep and he loved it. I like the 6 bore or 7 bore much better bullet and Higher BC's per weight. Better sectional density and that makes them hammer on game in the field.
I want to build a 240 WM on a 1-8 twist..I know a guy who did and it shoots very well.
I also know a guy shooting the B-115 VLD out of a 257 WM just over 3,500 FPS seems to kill well.

To me other than it is really flat out to 400 Yards do to the High MV.
I like my 6 bore 115's with a .550 BC at 3,100 FPS good to 1K or a bit further.

Sounds like you need to compare BC's and SD of the 25 caliber bullets to the 6 and 7, once again.

I say go for it

 

[Barlow]

If you're a rifle nut like the rest of us, and like to experiment, go for it, it's a learning experience. I did a 257AI years ago and have had a ball with it. Barlow

 

[JLT]

If you go the Ackley route, see if you can track down some WC870 powder (milsurp H870) and work up for the heavies. Very slow ball powder, developed for use in the 20mm, but it produces some eye-popping velocities in the .25-'06 AI and .257 Weatherby.

Milsurp powders can have significant variation in burn rate from lot to lot, so work up is required but I don't think you can get enough in the case to get pressure problems.

 

[Tommie]

Fact: When loaded to EQUAL PRESSURES each 1% gain in powder capacity will result in a .25% velocity gain. Crunch the numbers and prepare for a let-down.

I load and shoot several Ackley cartridges. Love them all. They're generally easier to hotrod (less body taper, etc) but pushing pressures and then comparing those speeds to SAAMI spec 25-06 ammo isn't an apples to apples comparison.

 

[Wingnut00]

I appreciate all the replies with this little curiosity of mine. So now just gotta finish the barrel on my 25-06 then put together an ackley version. Thanks again folks. Lookin forward to more knowledge with this idea of mine so feel free to keep the knowledge coming my way.

 

[Kurz]

Fact: When loaded to EQUAL PRESSURES each 1% gain in powder capacity will result in a .25% velocity gain. Crunch the numbers and prepare for a let-down.

Wingnut00,

I've been doing Ackley conversions for a couple of decades. Honestly, I don't care what increases I might achieve since I'm using the case because I like it and it allows me use a broader selection of powders. I test for the fastest, safe accuracy node and use it for that rifle. I don't have any percentages or facts that I can relate other than the fact that in the .25-06AI I get the performance I want when I hunt.

It is unfortunate though that the 1/4 bores have largely been ignored for the last 20 years or so. I've completed .25 BR, .25 Creedmoor, .25 Souper Improved, .257 Roberts AI, .250 Savage AI, .25-06 AI, .25 Gibbs, .257 Weatherby and .257 Condor (.25 cal. on the 7x61 S&H case). Of these I prefer to shoot the .250 Savage AI and the .25-06 AI.

Regards.

 

[AckleymanII]

R#25 with the Fed 215's will get you some unreal velocities with extreme accuracy and low SD!

 

[stacy]

Wingnut00,

I've been doing Ackley conversions for a couple of decades. Honestly, I don't care what increases I might achieve since I'm using the case because I like it and it allows me use a broader selection of powders. I test for the fastest, safe accuracy node and use it for that rifle. I don't have any percentages or facts that I can relate other than the fact that in the .25-06AI I get the performance I want when I hunt.

It is unfortunate though that the 1/4 bores have largely been ignored for the last 20 years or so. I've completed .25 BR, .25 Creedmoor, .25 Souper Improved, .257 Roberts AI, .250 Savage AI, .25-06 AI, .25 Gibbs, .257 Weatherby and .257 Condor (.25 cal. on the 7x61 S&H case). Of these I prefer to shoot the .250 Savage AI and the .25-06 AI.

Regards.

WELL SAID

 

[Tommie]

Kurz,
I chambered two 250-3000AI rifles. Awesome round! Can't picture a better coyote, deer or hog round. It just looks "right". My 6mm-250AI is a cool round but the 250 AI is a better all-around cartridge IMO. Just wish bullet selection for the 25's was a little better.

 

[Frankr]

Sounds like you need to compare BC's and SD of the 25 caliber bullets to the 6 and 7, once again.

I say go for it

JRS I don't know where you are going with that ?
Are you saying there are 25 cal bullets with higher BC's than the 6's or 7 bore's ?
Because if you think that is true you need to do the comparing not me I have already done it. Not just done it but I have shot them.
the Berger 115 VLD is the highest BC 25 cal bullet with a .466 BC that's decent but can not compare to 6mm 115's with .540's to .620 BC's even a 6mm 105 is around .530 then the 7's can go from .500 to .700's in the heavy's.
Some guys like the 25 cal 110 IB it has a .390 BC .238 SD . they seem to work well on deer but I prefer my 6mm 105's with a .532 BC & .254 SD I feel they work better on deer than any 25 cal you can shoot.That has been my testing over the years. But guy's still love their 25 cal's and that is fine but I don't. I love my 6mm's and the middle guy .277 cal then the 7mm's even the 30's but after shooting the 25/06 AI and a .257 rob a good bit I just don't.
Right now I have seven drop in their track shot's on whitetail's from 40 yards to just over 500 yards with the Berger 105 HVLD it is like the Hammer of Thor..I am always impressed how hard they hit. even a few guy's who witnessed a few of the shots are impressed how hard they it. I launch them at 3,150 FPS it is the most fun I have had hunting in a long time. I am sitting on four tags this year. cant wait. but I am going to be shooting the 6mm 115 HVLD mostly this year and I have only got one with that bullet so far so I would like to get four more good shots this year to see how they compare to the 105's.
As has been stated by a well know guy. The high impact speed due to the high BC coupled with a good SD (over .25) gives the spectacular one shot drop em in their tracks kill and I am kind of now a believer. card carrying member of the VLD.

 

[madderg]

I've got an old 25/284 with a Pac Nor barrel and it still shoots great. Same as 25-06 except it fits in shorter actions for 308.

 

[JRS]

JRS I don't know where you are going with that ?
Are you saying there are 25 cal bullets with higher BC's than the 6's or 7 bore's ?
Because if you think that is true you need to do the comparing not me I have already done it. Not just done it but I have shot them.
the Berger 115 VLD is the highest BC 25 cal bullet with a .466 BC that's decent but can not compare to 6mm 115's with .540's to .620 BC's even a 6mm 105 is around .530 then the 7's can go from .500 to .700's in the heavy's.
Some guys like the 25 cal 110 IB it has a .390 BC .238 SD . they seem to work well on deer but I prefer my 6mm 105's with a .532 BC & .254 SD I feel they work better on deer than any 25 cal you can shoot.That has been my testing over the years. But guy's still love their 25 cal's and that is fine but I don't. I love my 6mm's and the middle guy .277 cal then the 7mm's even the 30's but after shooting the 25/06 AI and a .257 rob a good bit I just don't.
Right now I have seven drop in their track shot's on whitetail's from 40 yards to just over 500 yards with the Berger 105 HVLD it is like the Hammer of Thor..I am always impressed how hard they hit. even a few guy's who witnessed a few of the shots are impressed how hard they it. I launch them at 3,150 FPS it is the most fun I have had hunting in a long time. I am sitting on four tags this year. cant wait. but I am going to be shooting the 6mm 115 HVLD mostly this year and I have only got one with that bullet so far so I would like to get four more good shots this year to see how they compare to the 105's.
As has been stated by a well know guy. The high impact speed due to the high BC coupled with a good SD (over .25) gives the spectacular one shot drop em in their tracks kill and I am kind of now a believer. card carrying member of the VLD.

If I'm not mistaken the 110 Gr BT made by the good RG Robinett has a BC of 530. BC doesn't mean much to me in a hunting rifle, because I don't hunt at 750+ yards. SD means much more to me. In the 6.5 or 7MM, you have to move up in bullet weight to equal the SD of the 110-120 grain 25 caliber bullets. The 25 caliber bullets have great SD.