Cyro barrel treatment

[tenring]

What is the consensus on this process? Does lit work better on buttoned versus cut rifled barrels? How about on a barrel with half its life remaining? Will there be improvement? Any negatives?

 

[wapiti25]

What I have heard is good barrels are already stress relieved, so it is a crap shoot.

 

[Robert]

What I have heard is good barrels are already stress relieved, so it is a crap shoot.

Cryo is normally used to remove remaining Austenite after heat treatmebt of steels.
Why then cryp a 416 steel who is already Martensitic?.

I do not think tgis treatment can be consideted as a stress reliever
R.G.C
c-g-designs.blog4ever.com

 

[Eddie Harren]

I had a very respectable barrel maker tell me, years ago, that Cryo-treating will not stress relive 416 stainless steel.

 

[carlsbad]

1. Cryo and heat treatment are two different things. Heat treatment is performed well above 1000 deg f.
2. Indeed, barrels all have a heat treatment that determines their mechanical properties. Better barrels, better heat treatment.
3. Barrels are bored after heat treatment so the bore will have residual stresses not there at the time of the heat treat.
4 Cryo treatment does not try to replace heat treatment or do the same thing as heat treatment (unless the company offering it also offers snake oil).
5. Cryo treatment is mostly advocated by those that sell it.
6. The benefits of Cryo treatment are vague--moving of alloying atom along grain boundaries or similar but usually written in a way that sounds like things end up more homogeneous.
7. I'm on the fence. My initial thoughts are skepticism as steel properties are generally considered stable below 1200 F or so. As things get colder, it is harder to move things around. Many Steels loses ductility and become brittle at very cold temperatures (nil-ductility transition) and this isn't a state where I would expect intergrannular changes to take place. I'll keep reading but for not I'm not spending money on it.

--Jerry

 

[wapiti25]

I had heard from a trap shooter that had a shotgun barrel cryo'd and it did stop the barrel from shifting point of aim when it got hot. Most shotguns barrels are not stainless.

 

[Alex Wheeler]

Krieger barrels are cryo'd. Kriegers all cut the same in the lathe, can't say that for others.

 

[watercam]

FWIW I have had two barrels cryo'd with very good results: 1) Ruger MKII Target .308 (hammer forged) - went from a .8moa shooter to less than .5 with no other change. 2) had a stainless match barrel rebored/rifled from .243 to .308. Was very accurate for 8-10 rounds then started throwing shots. Had it cryo'd as a last resort and it is now accurate enough to shoot multiple-day Long Range events (140 rounds or so). Can't hurt but if you have a custom barrel from a reputable company (ie - they stress relieved at least twice) I am betting you may not see much change.

 

[butchlambert]

Krieger barrels are cryo'd. Kriegers all cut the same in the lathe, can't say that for others.

Alex, I think they quit that some time ago. Most of the barrel cryo do not have facilities to do a true Cryo job.
I think you will find the barrel makers buy their steel already heat treated to their own specs. The better ones stress relieve as part of their mfg process.
Very few people waste their money on it any more. Remember the vibration and shaking treatment, electro etch cleaning, and many others?
Oh yeah, I had a barrel that shot .5moa before treatment and shot .0xx afterward. Didn't have to clean it anymore.

 

[Alex Wheeler]

Alex, I think they quit that some time ago. Most of the barrel cryo do not have facilities to do a true Cryo job.
I think you will find the barrel makers buy their steel already heat treated to their own specs. The better ones stress relieve as part of their mfg process.
Very few people waste their money on it any more. Remember the vibration and shaking treatment, electro etch cleaning, and many others?
Oh yeah, I had a barrel that shot .5moa before treatment and shot .0xx afterward. Didn't have to clean it anymore.

Butch, I thought they used to do it before and after and quit doing it after. I'll have to call them. Either way I have no experience with it aftermarket.

 

[butchlambert]

Alex, They used to, but I'm pretty sure they found their stress relief by oven did the trick. Cryo does not stress relieve. It has uses, but I don't think very many shooters do it any more. I have probably had more barrels cryo'd than most people. Did it help, not that I could tell in accuracy or an easier to clean barrel. I really wanted it to work and stayed with it for a few years.

 

[ebb]

I sent 2 Remington senderos to a shop in North Carolina (claimed they did a lot of nascar parts). The only change I saw was a magic marker dash on both receivers. Didn't shoot or clean better.

 

[Kings X]

!I have used 300 Below in the "real" world. Had a bunch of A2 tool steel that kept warping after lapping. That would lock my parts up. Clearance was 0.0005". After 300 Below go done they never moved again. I bet I had 40 blocks weighting over a 100 pounds each treated. All were checked before treatment - some had moved as much as 0.007". After treatment and re-grinding and lapping - they had not changed 5 years later.
Here is a quote from them about how they stress relieve -"
"Firearms and guns, rifles and shotguns, tooling and pumps, fleet brake rotors and knives, racing engines and transmissions … they all respond to deep cryogenic processing and cryogenic tempering. Many materials like centrifugal pumps and hydraulic pumps respond well, too! The benefits range anywhere from 50% to 600% longer life after stress relief and thermal stabilization. Guns such as sniper rifles and tactical rifles shoot with as much as 50% greater accuracy, and 200% longer life. Shotguns have reduced pattern shift from shot-heating by as much as 11″ after deep cryogenic processing. Cryo Barrel and Cryo Accurizing were pioneered by CryoTech / 300 Below Inc. Barrels shoot straighter, last longer, and are easier to clean. Our efforts are so unique that a patent was issued for our process. Cryogenic brake rotors last 350% longer, too."
Some barrel makes do not stress relieve and their barrels shoot top notch F-class score (and records). Some makes stress relieve many times during the process to make their award winning barrels.
If I have a barrel throwing the first round or two - I send it to 300 Below. Cost about $85.00. Worth the try if you only get two sighters.

 

[butchlambert]

!I have used 300 Below in the "real" world. Had a bunch of A2 tool steel that kept warping after lapping. That would lock my parts up. Clearance was 0.0005". After 300 Below go done they never moved again. I bet I had 40 blocks weighting over a 100 pounds each treated. All were checked before treatment - some had moved as much as 0.007". After treatment and re-grinding and lapping - they had not changed 5 years later.
Here is a quote from them about how they stress relieve -"
"Firearms and guns, rifles and shotguns, tooling and pumps, fleet brake rotors and knives, racing engines and transmissions … they all respond to deep cryogenic processing and cryogenic tempering. Many materials like centrifugal pumps and hydraulic pumps respond well, too! The benefits range anywhere from 50% to 600% longer life after stress relief and thermal stabilization. Guns such as sniper rifles and tactical rifles shoot with as much as 50% greater accuracy, and 200% longer life. Shotguns have reduced pattern shift from shot-heating by as much as 11″ after deep cryogenic processing. Cryo Barrel and Cryo Accurizing were pioneered by CryoTech / 300 Below Inc. Barrels shoot straighter, last longer, and are easier to clean. Our efforts are so unique that a patent was issued for our process. Cryogenic brake rotors last 350% longer, too."
Some barrel makes do not stress relieve and their barrels shoot top notch F-class score (and records). Some makes stress relieve many times during the process to make their award winning barrels.
If I have a barrel throwing the first round or two - I send it to 300 Below. Cost about $85.00. Worth the try if you only get two sighters.

Richard, cryo is not a stress relief process.

 

[Kings X]

Butch,
Please read my account of it stress relieving those blocks. I saw it take the stress out of those blocks with my own eyes!!!
Note in the quote from 300 Below - stress relieving.
Here is from another cryo company - Diversified Cryogenics -
'
Cryo-Accurizing relieves stress in firearm barrels through deep cryogenic tempering. Stresses cause a barrel to bend or warp as it heats from repeated firing -- warping causes walking, stringing or wandering in the shot group. Deep cryogenic tempering process relieves internal stress in the firearm so the barrel will no longer bend or warp. In addition, your firearm will be easier to clean and give you increased performance, increased accuracy and extended barrel life.
---
It stress relieves just like heat and vibration - makes the modules move and re-align
.

 

[LHSmith]

Butch,
Please read my account of it stress relieving those blocks. I saw it take the stress out of those blocks with my own eyes!!!
Note in the quote from 300 Below - stress relieving.
Here is from another cryo company - Diversified Cryogenics -
'
Cryo-Accurizing relieves stress in firearm barrels through deep cryogenic tempering. Stresses cause a barrel to bend or warp as it heats from repeated firing -- warping causes walking, stringing or wandering in the shot group. Deep cryogenic tempering process relieves internal stress in the firearm so the barrel will no longer bend or warp. In addition, your firearm will be easier to clean and give you increased performance, increased accuracy and extended barrel life.
---
It stress relieves just like heat and vibration - makes the modules move and re-align
.

Sales pitches. Show me the concrete evidence that it makes RIFLE BARRELS last longer or increases accuracy potential. These companies have had 20+ years to document such proof of claims.......and we are all still waiting.
It will be hard to overcome the negative experience a number of notable BR shooters had when they sent chambered barrels of known accuracy for cryo treatment back then and they shot worse than before treatment.

 

[JimPag]

Sales pitches. Show me the concrete evidence that it makes RIFLE BARRELS last longer or increases accuracy potential. These companies have had 20+ years to document such proof of claims.......and we are all still waiting.
It will be hard to overcome the negative experience a number of notable BR shooters had when they sent chambered barrels of known accuracy for cryo treatment back then and they shot worse than before treatment.

Have you ever sent 1 barrel out to be cryoed?

 

[butchlambert]

I have had several cryo'ed. If you believe it, believe it. It is a waste of money.

 

[Endyo]

What interesting timing on this discussion. I 'won' a Free Voucher at a local match for cryo treatment donated by 300 Below this last Sunday. I have a barrel chambered by Richard (Kings X) waiting on an action.

I wasn't sure if I was going to send it off for treatment. It would be hard to objectively determine any positive effect, but it's free though...

 

[JimPag]

What interesting timing on this discussion. I 'won' a Free Voucher at a local match for cryo treatment donated by 300 Below this last Sunday. I have a barrel chambered by Richard (Kings X) waiting on an action.

I wasn't sure if I was going to send it off for treatment. It would be hard to objectively determine any positive effect, but it's free though...

I have had 300 Below do about 20 barrels for me since 2013. Don't know and can't say whether it makes a barrel more accurate, but I do know that it absolutely makes my barrels easier to clean. As far as throat erosion goes, I have 2 barrels, one with 3K rounds thru it and the other with 4K thru it and the lands are still square and the edges are sharp as ever looking at it with a borescope.