Bipod in F-Open?
- Thread starter brshtr
- Start date
swd
Silver $$ Contributor
Myself and a couple friends use Harris'. Mind you, we're not real serious about being competive in F Open. We use it more for practice for steel varmint silhouette where we do have to use field type bipods. It's a definite disadvantage but not as huge as you might think. You have to pay a lot more attention to gun handling, which is exactly what were trying to practice. The MD at the last shoot made the comment "well there's something to be said about being able to just throw your gun down and be able to shoot it!"
I don't see it much outside of the friends I attend matches with. We also use Harris bi-pods, because we see it as more realistic practice for other rifle uses. We don't win many matches, but we shoot a lot of scores in the 190s when the wind is not blowing too badly.
Those who really want to win, spare no expense toward eliminating every dropped point. My shooting friends are more of a mindset to become the best riflemen we can be. That goal aligns better using bi-pods than the true belly bench rest.
Those who really want to win, spare no expense toward eliminating every dropped point. My shooting friends are more of a mindset to become the best riflemen we can be. That goal aligns better using bi-pods than the true belly bench rest.
We had a fellow doing rather well with a sinclare a few years ago. Better than I expected so it didn't seem to be holding him back.
I shoot F Open off a Bipod, but then again I make bipods. My rifle is a Rem. 700 LA single shot in 6.5X47 Lapua built by myself. It has a Masterclass F Class thumbhole stock, Krieger barrel and a Sightron 8X32 scope, and a Shilen trigger. The Bipod I use weighs about 15 ozs. I have shot my way up to Master Class in Midrange ( Oh, now the NRA when I looked up my classification says I am a Highmaster in Midrange, I'm not so sure about that ) and Sharpshooter in long range. I don't shoot as much as I would like to because of work, but I did shoot the NRA F Class Nationals and the Bergers last Feb. at Ben Avery in Phoenix.
It takes me a little longer to get set up on target then with a joy stick fancy front rest. I think if you have a heavy steady rear bag it helps a lot.
Tarey
It takes me a little longer to get set up on target then with a joy stick fancy front rest. I think if you have a heavy steady rear bag it helps a lot.
Tarey
It's becoming much more common than it used to be, probably as today's latest models developed for FTR are very stable indeed. The SEB JoyPod is a good example and increasingly seen in GB F-Class, mostly FTR but also a surprising number of Open shooters too. (Often the joystick bit isn't used except in initial set-up, the mechanism adjusted to give high-friction, and nearly locked up.)
Much depends on the firing line material / surface. In the UK, we shoot almost exclusively off grass turf and a good bipod handles very well on this surface. As pods have become ever wider and more stable, they cope with torque better, so the range of cartridges they can handle increases. I've seen people use 284 and 7mm Shehane rifles very well with bipods. Nevertheless, their greatest attraction is still to people using lighter recoiling numbers such as the smaller 6.5s and sixes.
Why use a bipod and not a good joystick front-rest such as the SEB Neo, Farley, and Dolphin Gun Co. models? Apart from the obvious one of price up front, there is the straightforward matter of firing line access and carrying the gear. I shoot regularly in a high hillside range where most firing lines are built on the hillside and tiered down it in a series of steps. The minimum distance to carry gear is 25-100 yards depending on how good a car parking spot one gets on arrival, but some distances involve much longer carries and for 300 yard comps involves a very steep climb up a hillside on a path that is often wet with poor footing and buffeted by wind. I never take a front-rest to this firing line now, and use a bipod as matter of course as do many others as I'm exhausted carrying my Neo up the hill. In matches where winning scores are normally in the 99 / 100 range (199/200 in US scoring) with V (X)-counts in the mid teens, the absence of a bipod doesn't appear to be hampering people.
We also have a very interesting prototype super-wide and very light carbon fibre legs bipod in the system from Evo Leisure in the UK which I hope goes into production. It's already available in a pretty wide standard form, but the company made an extra-wide one-off and it is being trialled this season in GB national and international FTR by Stuart Anselm. I'd be very interested in trying on an Open rifle too. This link is to a Target Shooter magazine review of the Italian Victrix FTR rifle which Stuart is also shooting this season and although there is no mention of it in the text, the wide boy is shown in the main photograph at the start.
http://www.targetshooter.co.uk/?p=2046
Finally, a lot depends on what you use in F-Open. A 6BR with 105s or 6.5X47 Lapua with 123s or the 130 Hybrid puts a lot less energy and torque into the combo than a 7mm WSM wildcat with 180/195s, or a 300WSM with 230s!
Much depends on the firing line material / surface. In the UK, we shoot almost exclusively off grass turf and a good bipod handles very well on this surface. As pods have become ever wider and more stable, they cope with torque better, so the range of cartridges they can handle increases. I've seen people use 284 and 7mm Shehane rifles very well with bipods. Nevertheless, their greatest attraction is still to people using lighter recoiling numbers such as the smaller 6.5s and sixes.
Why use a bipod and not a good joystick front-rest such as the SEB Neo, Farley, and Dolphin Gun Co. models? Apart from the obvious one of price up front, there is the straightforward matter of firing line access and carrying the gear. I shoot regularly in a high hillside range where most firing lines are built on the hillside and tiered down it in a series of steps. The minimum distance to carry gear is 25-100 yards depending on how good a car parking spot one gets on arrival, but some distances involve much longer carries and for 300 yard comps involves a very steep climb up a hillside on a path that is often wet with poor footing and buffeted by wind. I never take a front-rest to this firing line now, and use a bipod as matter of course as do many others as I'm exhausted carrying my Neo up the hill. In matches where winning scores are normally in the 99 / 100 range (199/200 in US scoring) with V (X)-counts in the mid teens, the absence of a bipod doesn't appear to be hampering people.
We also have a very interesting prototype super-wide and very light carbon fibre legs bipod in the system from Evo Leisure in the UK which I hope goes into production. It's already available in a pretty wide standard form, but the company made an extra-wide one-off and it is being trialled this season in GB national and international FTR by Stuart Anselm. I'd be very interested in trying on an Open rifle too. This link is to a Target Shooter magazine review of the Italian Victrix FTR rifle which Stuart is also shooting this season and although there is no mention of it in the text, the wide boy is shown in the main photograph at the start.
http://www.targetshooter.co.uk/?p=2046
Finally, a lot depends on what you use in F-Open. A 6BR with 105s or 6.5X47 Lapua with 123s or the 130 Hybrid puts a lot less energy and torque into the combo than a 7mm WSM wildcat with 180/195s, or a 300WSM with 230s!
Dave,
There's nothing against preventing the use of a bipod but may I ask why?
I would prefer to shoot on an entry level Front Rest than a top of the line Bipod
Will it hurt your scores? Maybe not initially.
Will hinder your growth? Most likely.
If you want to be competitive commit the gathering the equipment you will need for that discipline!
There's nothing against preventing the use of a bipod but may I ask why?
I would prefer to shoot on an entry level Front Rest than a top of the line Bipod
Will it hurt your scores? Maybe not initially.
Will hinder your growth? Most likely.
If you want to be competitive commit the gathering the equipment you will need for that discipline!
Try adjusting the placement of your rear toe and fore-end in your bags. Ray Bowman designs the low-boy stocks to have a longer "wheel-base". This is supposed to reduce mistakes in handling, and in addition to the lower bore axis may help with torque.
I was also shown recently on the firing line to adjust the front stopper on the rest so that the fore end is in the "D" position as in this picture.
http://www.accurateshooter.com/shooting-skills/optimize-your-rifle-position-on-rests/
If you're having rocking port and starboard (left and right). You have a flat fore-end. The stock is rocking on the "crown" of the front bag. You either need to have the stock routed for tracking rails. Or put tension on the middle of the front bag with a band or rope.
http://bulletin.accurateshooter.com/2013/02/match-winning-rifle-shiraz-balolias-300-wsm-f-open-rig/
http://mysticprecision.com/2014/02/nra-record-falls-to-mpod-f-open-shooter-at-berger-sw-nationals/
Good enough to set a new NRA record....
As Laurie has suggested, some open shooters are using bipods because of their ability to handle more torque. We have a number that shoot with bipods in Canada and do very well.
Maybe it is the number of grass mounds? But most use a carpet or shooting mat to shoot off.
Is it going to become the norm? unlikely... but with the right set up, it is competitive.
Jerry
Good enough to set a new NRA record....
As Laurie has suggested, some open shooters are using bipods because of their ability to handle more torque. We have a number that shoot with bipods in Canada and do very well.
Maybe it is the number of grass mounds? But most use a carpet or shooting mat to shoot off.
Is it going to become the norm? unlikely... but with the right set up, it is competitive.
Jerry
All,
Thank you for your excellent replies!
I have a couple of pedestal front rests that would be suitable for F-Open, but I already shoot on one in benchrest; for F-Class I'm thinking about using a bipod just because I think I'd enjoy doing something different.
The rifle is a 6BR prone gun that I normally shoot with a sling, but now that the hot weather is here I don't relish the thought of roasting in my shooting coat (it gets somewhat hot here in Georgia and we shoot on an uncovered firing line). Hence, my interest in F-Class for the next few months.
The bipod would be a Rempel, a pretty stable unit. The total weight of the rifle with scope and bipod would be 19 lbs.
The match is in a week so I'll ponder it some more. Thanks again for your thoughtful replies.
Dave Rabin
Thank you for your excellent replies!
I have a couple of pedestal front rests that would be suitable for F-Open, but I already shoot on one in benchrest; for F-Class I'm thinking about using a bipod just because I think I'd enjoy doing something different.
The rifle is a 6BR prone gun that I normally shoot with a sling, but now that the hot weather is here I don't relish the thought of roasting in my shooting coat (it gets somewhat hot here in Georgia and we shoot on an uncovered firing line). Hence, my interest in F-Class for the next few months.
The bipod would be a Rempel, a pretty stable unit. The total weight of the rifle with scope and bipod would be 19 lbs.
The match is in a week so I'll ponder it some more. Thanks again for your thoughtful replies.
Dave Rabin
Last edited:
I have just been contemplating this same question for a different reason. I'm thinking about getting ride of my rest. Why ... Because I can shoot better of my bipod. All be it an FTR MPOD,
My opinion From what I've seen, looking at scores the caliber choice and shooter ability seems to be the defining factor across the board between FTR bipod and F class open.
Depending on the day, I've seen FTR guys with a perceived caliber disadvantage out shoot a majority of the open class guys.
What does it come down too if all things are relatively equal, quality rifle, proper loads it comes down too shooter ability. can you hold the ten ring and find that x with a bipod. If you can there is no disadvantage really.
Use what works for you.
Top shooters be it Bipod or Rest no matter what the caliber one thing shines through, they are are much better at wind reading.
My opinion From what I've seen, looking at scores the caliber choice and shooter ability seems to be the defining factor across the board between FTR bipod and F class open.
Depending on the day, I've seen FTR guys with a perceived caliber disadvantage out shoot a majority of the open class guys.
What does it come down too if all things are relatively equal, quality rifle, proper loads it comes down too shooter ability. can you hold the ten ring and find that x with a bipod. If you can there is no disadvantage really.
Use what works for you.
Top shooters be it Bipod or Rest no matter what the caliber one thing shines through, they are are much better at wind reading.
Last edited:
Reviewing the results of Central Alabama Gun Club, suggests the F-TR shooters often best the open shooters.
Yes, it happens. It can be done with a bipod. The FTR guys are in leaps and bounds right now...
If you are to query the top shooters in FTR today, you will find that their rifles are shooting in the 1/3 min range... some at the 1/4 min range... and this is at 300m or yds.
The current state of FTR rifles put the set ups, ammo and shooters neck and neck with F Open rifles. Just look at the current NRA 1000yds FTR record scores... pretty darn impressive.
Yes, things have really progressed in the last few years.
The big issue is the ballistic limits of the 308 vs the Open options at 1000yds. In light to moderate winds, FTR shooters are scoring with the same level of scores as Open shooters.
When the winds start to howl, the 308 simply becomes more difficult to steer and the points spread grows.
Jerry
The current state of FTR rifles put the set ups, ammo and shooters neck and neck with F Open rifles. Just look at the current NRA 1000yds FTR record scores... pretty darn impressive.
Yes, things have really progressed in the last few years.
The big issue is the ballistic limits of the 308 vs the Open options at 1000yds. In light to moderate winds, FTR shooters are scoring with the same level of scores as Open shooters.
When the winds start to howl, the 308 simply becomes more difficult to steer and the points spread grows.
Jerry
Very happy to hear you are doing well with the MPOD. It makes for a very stable set up.
Good luck in Open with the MPOD.
Jerry
I'm in complete agreement Jerry about the enormous strides FTR has taken in the last ten years, but here in the UK, we've yet to see an FTR aggregate overtop 'Open' in a GB F-Class Association league round, even in our annual season opener, the short-range (600 yards) match at Diggle in March. Mind you, if you've ever shot at Diggle in late March, you'd understand this! This almost certainly reflects the changeability of the weather and wind conditions at the three ranges which host GB-FCA matches - Bisley, Diggle, and Blair Atholl.
On a handful of occasions, a winning FTR 1,000 yard stage score has beaten that of the best Open shooter, but this is usually down to varying conditions across relays. If one misses a round, an easy way to acsertain how hard the conditions were is to look at the final scores and see how big a gap there is between the class winners. If single points, the conditions were steady; if 20-30 points, it was hard going out of aggs in the mid 300s. Even when the points totals are close, Open usually has a large gap in its favour in the aggregate V-count.
The three league rounds shot so far this year have all been in difficult conditions and have given the overall (Open) winner premiums of 15 points (600yd match) 19 points, and 36 points. Round 3 (Diggle) saw the FTR relays suffer bad luck by being caught in a series of heavy rainsqualls whilst Open was much less badly affected on its relays. The difference in aggregates was so great, the FTR winner would only have been 28th in Open class!
Upgrades & Donations
This Forum's expenses are primarily paid by member contributions. You can upgrade your Forum membership in seconds. Gold and Silver members get unlimited FREE classifieds for one year. Gold members can upload custom avatars.
Click Upgrade Membership Button ABOVE to get Gold or Silver Status.
You can also donate any amount, large or small, with the button below. Include your Forum Name in the PayPal Notes field.
To DONATE by CHECK, or make a recurring donation, CLICK HERE to learn how.
Click Upgrade Membership Button ABOVE to get Gold or Silver Status.
You can also donate any amount, large or small, with the button below. Include your Forum Name in the PayPal Notes field.
To DONATE by CHECK, or make a recurring donation, CLICK HERE to learn how.