Bullet for bear hunt

[Jgraf]

I hunt bears in the spring here in Idaho. I use a Rem 700 in 308 win. with a 22" light weight barrel and a 1-4 power scope. It's the same setup I use for elk in this area because shots are usually close and quick, rarely further than 100 yards, because of the thick brush and trees. I use 168 gr. Barnes x-bullet for these tough critters but always seem to get pass-throughs because of the close range. So this year I'm thinking of switching to a 150 gr. Barnes or 150 gr. Nosler Partitions.
Do you think this will make a difference in energy absorption and penetration? If so, how? I'm interested in your thoughts and ideas. Thank you.

 

[Cold Bore]

I hunt bears....

It's the same setup I use for elk...

I use 168 gr. Barnes x-bullet for these tough critters but always seem to get pass-throughs because of the close range.

What exactly is wrong with pass-throughs?

Two holes to leak blood and leave an easier to follow trail is never a bad thing, especially on a thickly haired and fatty bear.

 

[FN in MT]

I agree with Cold Bore...leave it alone. Use the 168's. Why mess with success?

 

[watercam]

I use 168s for Boar, Elk, and everything else out to 375 yards (so far).

 

[Jgraf]

I was thinking there might not be as much energy transfer with pass throughs.

 

[people]

I think what you are doing now is working. I have tried using bullets that dump all their energy inside and the insides look like a copper and lead mine but death does not seem to happen as fast. The rest is what cold bore said.

What I have seen with getting a pass through is the seems to be more damage vs tons of little holes.

 

[MrMajestic]

Two holes sure makes tracking easier if they don't just fall over where you shot them. If your killing Elk with your load I think you found your bear load. JMHO

 

[Cold Bore]

I was thinking there might not be as much energy transfer with pass throughs.

There is plenty of "energy transfer" with pass-throughs. It's not like the bullet is a scalpel, making a clean gentle slice, or a drill making a nice clean hole. It still slams into the animal. I'm sure you are familiar with temporary wound cavities and such (the huge gourd shaped hole that is created from bullet impact). You get that from any hit, whether the bullet remains in the animal or passes through. That is where the majority of your energy is transferred.

With your line of thinking (wanting the bullet to stay inside), you have one hole. What if the fat or hide shifts over it, and blocks the blood trail? How deep did the bullet penetrate? One lung? Two? Heart as well? Maybe the liver if an angled shot? Maybe, maybe not. You're never sure until after recovering the animal.

With a bullet designed for and capable of pass-throughs, you know what you hit.... everything between this side and the far side. You deflate both lungs, and open up an extra air leak to the outside on both sides, further guaranteeing that both lungs collapse/fail. Ain't no bear, elk, or anything else going far missing both lungs, though they can travel surprisingly far with just one out of commission.

With that pass-through shot, if one hole gets clogged up with fat/tissue/hide, you still have another for blood to make it out and to the ground, aiding in your tracking job. Besides, the second hole is usually larger than the entry, thanks to expansion, offering an even bigger benefit.

I can't think of too many advantages to a bullet that stays inside the animal, versus one that punches all the way through. I will gladly dump some of that "energy" into the hillside beyond, in exchange for the above listed advantages.

 

[wboggs]

The energy difference is negligible. Stay with what you are using. In addition, you have room for error on a shot requiring a lot of penetration.
Good hunting.
Bill

 

[Jgraf]

Thank you all for the comments and insights. These are some things I didn't fully realize.

 

[wboggs]

That's what the forum is good for. It lets you benefit from the experience of others.
Good hunting.
Bill

 

[Cold Bore]

Thank you all for the comments and insights. These are some things I didn't fully realize.

 

[284winner]

Black Bears are the easiest big game animal to anchor. I've killed alot of black bears with archery gear and rifles. Energy is no factor. Punch a hole in there lungs and you'll most likely watch them die. Not impartive to have an exit hole due to there quick death. Nice for blood IF you can find any. A 308 with any standard hunting ammo would be good. I'd say 150 grain up. Good luck and good hunting.

 

[Shaggy357]

Rather than going down in bullet weight, I would go up, especially if your shots are within 100 yards. Try the 180 or 190 grain bullets in the .308. The Nosler Partitions would work wonders for you. I have some friends that hunt Clarkston/Lewiston area and up near Hayden. They are partial to the heavy bullets with early energy for up close and personal shots.

Good luck.

Steve

 

[DWheels]

Rather than going down in bullet weight, I would go up, especially if your shots are within 100 yards. Try the 180 or 190 grain bullets in the .308. The Nosler Partitions would work wonders for you. I have some friends that hunt Clarkston/Lewiston area and up near Hayden. They are partial to the heavy bullets with early energy for up close and personal shots.

Good luck.

Steve

The Barnes bullet you are using expands to it's full potential inside of two inches. A while back I was shown a piece of .050 thick soft aluminum. It was used to test how fast the TSX expands compared to other premium bullets. The test was shot with a 1 inch slice of ballistic gelatin in front of the aluminum plate. The holes in the plate clearly showed the typical X shaped hole. They don't have this test on the website any more but there are several that clearly show the rapid expansion of the TSX bullet.

 

[Chalktaw]

Hello Folks, I am the new kid on the block!

Now to answer your bullet question, I will say that I have never liked Barnes Bullets period. Those pass threw shots (Barnes Bullets) are like shooting an arrow that has a field point on the end of it. Meaning it does not expand (or cut ) and a bullet needs to expand to do it's damage to the organs of the animal. I have several friends, who in years passed lost elk because of the BARNES bullet "not opening", it just went clean through the elk, not causing enough tissue damage.

My favorite bullet for black bears, has always been a Nosler Partition 180 grain bullet for my 308 rifle. My #1 bullet for grizzly, is in fact the Swift A Frame bullet. I use a .338 caliber (250grn bullet) and .375 caliber for those type bears. Nonetheless, they all mushroom out and give excellent retention of 95% or better. You would be better off to use the 180 grain Nosler Partition bullet in your .308-caliber. The tissue damage on your bear using these type bullets will indeed be greater.

 

[msinc]

I was thinking there might not be as much energy transfer with pass throughs.

THIS!!!!! A black bear is a very solid animal. They say that pound for pound he is the strongest animal on this earth. A pass thru is what I want when I am bow hunting, but for bear with a rifle I want all the energy expended on impact. I have seen too many bears drop in their tracks only to get back up and run off. A bear IS NOT the animal you want to have to track into thick brush {where they always go wounded} and follow not knowing just how good of a hit you have. You can best believe and you had better proceed accordingly that you didn't get a very good hit on him or he would either be laying right there or you would have seen him fall for the last time. Nosler partition, Speer Grand Slam, etc.

 

[284winner]

Good shot placement kills. Bad shots cause wounded and dangerous bears. Definitely good bullet design is paramount for any bear of size. Assuming Idaho has pretty good size average bears, you'll want good construction. Better than good construction, you'll want good accuracy. Any 308 bullet designed to push it's weight and not expand on impact will do what you expect even if it's 150 grains. Heavier is just extra insurance for bone or bigger bears. Good luck. Post your success with what you used.

 

[spencerhenry]

i prefer a 225gr out of a 338 win mag. my last bear killed with a rifle took 4 of those to the chest before going down. but, he was well into the record books. the first shot would have killed him, but i have a policy that if it is still up i keep shooting. first one was standing still, the other three were running. started at 40 yards, died at 10 yards.

 

[LoganDon]

Being an old guy of sometimes feeble mind, but having shot almost all western game, I have a really hard time choosing between the TSX and the Partition. I have lots of experience with the Partition and have harvested a lot more game with the Partition than with the TSX but both are deadly and neither will let you down. Being old, everything hurts especially my arthritic shoulders which means I am especially recoil sensitive. Went away from my favorite 7Mag and 300WM and started using my old -06, 270, and 280 so lately I have been going with a lighter bullet in the TSX and I get the same instant "4 feet up" affect on the animal. I do like the blood trail of the TSX especially on bear.