alaska black bear hunt. which round?

[M700]

Josh - it's hard to equate an F-Class gun with a general purpose hunting rifle. The two can mix, but it's tough to get them to mix well without making some serious compromises. Consider building the F-Class rifle you want, and just buying a plain old off-the-shelf .30-06, even a used one, from Ruger, Remington or Winchester. You don't need a fancy gun for hunting. A reliable, easy carrying .30-06 will handle almost any hunting situation - then you can spend your time and money on your fancy F-Class rifle. Just my two cents worth.

On the other hand, I do have a general purpose .308 Win that I've used well in matches, used for varmint shooting, and have used on bear and deer hunts. I'd hunt elk with it too - but it's a little cumbersome for general purpose hunting, and a little too "hunting rifle" like to be a really good match rifle. Still, we get along.

Choices - aren't they fun?

Regards, Guy

 

[bozo699]

Nosler Partitions are junk,will not stay together & should not be carried afield.

What? You are hereby nominated for most preposterous statement of 2011.

Apparently thousands of successful partition users are wrong but you're right. Right? Of course.

I don't believe Nosler Partitions are particularly accurate but have never had them come apart, just the opposite actually. There not a good deer bullet because there to hard and will not expand reliably on the thin skinned critters, but will kill them if hit in the vitals and will break bone and hold together if the shot is a little off. Excellent elk and big bear or any big thick skinned big boned animal bullet! Dan I think you must have had a bad batch or mistook them for corelocks
Wayne.

 

[Dans40X]

25yrs ago Partitions were the ticket.
Times change.

There are numerous options available today that I'd load & shoot backwards before shooting Partitions.

 

[bozo699]

25yrs ago Partitions were the ticket.
Times change.

There are numerous options available today that I'd load & shoot backwards before shooting Partitions.

Dan,
Seriously tell us how you really feel about Partition bullets : LOL
Wayne.

 

[bheadboy]

HEY I LIKE THEIDEA OF SHOOTING BULLETS BACKWARDS, HOW DO YOU HANDLE FEETING AND ARE THEY ACCURATE?

MY NOS PT IN 300WM TOOK BEAR/ELK/MULIE ALL AT OVER 450YD, I MUST BE DOING SOMETHING WRONG.
BOB

 

[MrMajestic]

Josh11, Lets not confuse desire with need. A quality 6.5 diameter bullet has the ability to kill any animal in the world with even mediocre terminal velocity however I know of no recommendations to do so. If its all I had I would not forego the hunt but if I could beg or borrow a .338-06 or .35 Whelen that's the route I would go. Our quarry deserves to be harvested humanely which requires foremost accurate shot placement with an appropriately constructed bullet delivered with adequate terminal energy. Of course returning home safely after a chance encounter with a grumpy Brown is a big plus also!

Controlled feed actioned .338 dia.+ bored rifle, 1K+, Guided Alaskan Bear hunt, 10K+, maintaining your "Top of the food chain" position against all challengers, priceless!

 

[fullersson]

The link and quote below are from the web so take it for what it is worth but I thought it was interesting. It also made me think that if you already have a guide booked maybe you could call them and see what they recommend and if there's any legal requirements on a specific caliber for the game you are hunting. Brian Brown.


http://www.alaskahunts.net/alaska/gear.htm

"For the big bears we simply do not want to discuss anything under the .338 Mag. with 250 grain premium bullets. Note, we consider this the minimum caliber suitable for use in any of our bear camps! I carry a Brno (CZ model 602) in .458 Lott, and we highly recommend .375 H&H's on up into the big .40's. Rifles used for the big bears should not be new, unused rifles, rather they should be rifles that the clients have put through some testing, and individuals should be sure they will operate in the worst of conditions. My first rifle as a professional guide was one of the highly praised Savage Safari Express, model 116 in .458 Win. Mag., and this rifle failed in every possible manner that one could imagine during a mere 45 days in the bush. From rounds porpoising out of the magazine when the action was cycled, to firing pin seizure, the rifle proved to be totally worthless. I personally recommend leaving your rifle outside in the rain for a week, (at least) then testing it, perhaps the more appropriate test is to do this with a couple of dips in the bathtub, just for good measure. Remember, we don't hunt from warm cabins, and your rifle is likely to be wet 90% of the time. Stainless is great, but internal parts are often blued, (as was the Savage), so don't expect it to be a cure-all. Synthetic stocks are great, but the greatest thing is a well tested rifle, that you know will perform under all conditions. My Brno is not stainless, and the stock is walnut. My best advice, once again, is to ignore the arm chair gun writers and go with proven hardware."

 

[bozo699]

The link and quote below are from the web so take it for what it is worth but I thought it was interesting. It also made me think that if you already have a guide booked maybe you could call them and see what they recommend and if there's any legal requirements on a specific caliber for the game you are hunting. Brian Brown.


http://www.alaskahunts.net/alaska/gear.htm

"For the big bears we simply do not want to discuss anything under the .338 Mag. with 250 grain premium bullets. Note, we consider this the minimum caliber suitable for use in any of our bear camps! I carry a Brno (CZ model 602) in .458 Lott, and we highly recommend .375 H&H's on up into the big .40's. Rifles used for the big bears should not be new, unused rifles, rather they should be rifles that the clients have put through some testing, and individuals should be sure they will operate in the worst of conditions. My first rifle as a professional guide was one of the highly praised Savage Safari Express, model 116 in .458 Win. Mag., and this rifle failed in every possible manner that one could imagine during a mere 45 days in the bush. From rounds porpoising out of the magazine when the action was cycled, to firing pin seizure, the rifle proved to be totally worthless. I personally recommend leaving your rifle outside in the rain for a week, (at least) then testing it, perhaps the more appropriate test is to do this with a couple of dips in the bathtub, just for good measure. Remember, we don't hunt from warm cabins, and your rifle is likely to be wet 90% of the time. Stainless is great, but internal parts are often blued, (as was the Savage), so don't expect it to be a cure-all. Synthetic stocks are great, but the greatest thing is a well tested rifle, that you know will perform under all conditions. My Brno is not stainless, and the stock is walnut. My best advice, once again, is to ignore the arm chair gun writers and go with proven hardware."

I agree with your post Brian and I definitely agree with Alaska Hunts preferences and analogies, good read.
Wayne.

 

[wboggs]

Very wise advice from someone who spends many days in the field and has the job of backing up hunters, very competent to worthless, who are paying his salary.
I would add one important point. Practice with the rifle from an offhand position until you can hit a 3" target at 50yds, cycle the bolt and do it 3 times. A variation is 6" at 100, next 3" at 50, then 2" at 25, as fast as you can hit the target. Be sure your scope is in focus at these short ranges. Depending on the terrain you are hunting in, the longer range shots can be sttting or prone and you should also practice these.
I shoot the short range practice shots with reduced loads that don't have much recoil, as little as possible to start with, then work up to your hunting load. Respect the bear and remember that they run both ways. Bill

 

[bheadboy]

WBoggs is correct on the practice with rifle and repeat shots,

one more improtant thing - DO NOT OVER SCOPE, 4X MAX, ON THE VARIABLE LOW END, YOU NEED TO BE ABLE TO SEE UP CLOSE!!!! IF FIXED, ALL YOU NEED IS A 3X LARGE VIEW. MY PERSONAL USE HAS BEEN A 3.5X10 AO 5OMM LUP

YOU DO NOT NEED TO SHOOT AT LONG RANGE AND THEY ARE BBBIIIGGGG ANIMALS

Bob

 

[M700]

"For the big bears we simply do not want to discuss anything under the .338 Mag. with 250 grain premium bullets. Note, we consider this the minimum caliber suitable for use in any of our bear camps! I carry a Brno (CZ model 602) in .458 Lott, and we highly recommend .375 H&H's on up into the big .40's."

I strongly suspect this recommendation is for the big Alaskan brown bear & grizzlies, not the black bears the OP is going for.

 

[bozo699]

"For the big bears we simply do not want to discuss anything under the .338 Mag. with 250 grain premium bullets. Note, we consider this the minimum caliber suitable for use in any of our bear camps! I carry a Brno (CZ model 602) in .458 Lott, and we highly recommend .375 H&H's on up into the big .40's."

I strongly suspect this recommendation is for the big Alaskan brown bear & grizzlies, not the black bears the OP is going for.

M700,
You need to read the whole post my friend, the op wants to use a .260 if it will work, and of course it will work but people have warned him against the little round because of the possibility of running into a big brown bear while hunting a little black bear. I myself have never hunted in AK but people who have like WBoggs recommend the bigger rounds and it sounds like good advice to me. I had a friend that was hunting with a friend of his back in the 60's for caribou Ron was using 30-06 and his friend was using a 30-30, they were in real heavy brush, when a big brown bear attacked, he finally stopped the big bear with the last round the 30-30 had right at his feet, Ron couldn't help because he couldn't see what was happening, but he could hear and figured he had a dead friend,luckily he was fine, they hunted for another 30 years together,...when in AK or BC they bought .378 wby mags. Being charged at close range by the big brown made believers out of both of them!
Wayne.

 

[wboggs]

The Alders are so thick you can hardly walk through them and when you are in Bear country they are all over. Usually they wind you and run but not always. That is when the trouble starts and you and the guide have no room for error. They have learned to come to the sound of a shot and that is why so many caribou and moose hunters get into trouble. I try to avoid the thick areas around the salmon streams but if you must go there you go very slowly, listen every step or two, have one in the chamber, scope on low power 1-3x, full combat alert, do not carry game meat, and NEVER be out in the dark. If you get tired or careless you are very vulnerable and should leave the area. No place to be macho.
I like to get on the high ground with a good vantage point and use a spooting scope.Then plan any stalk early in the day. You are a sitting duck at night.Bill

 

[M700]

I have read it all, and contributed. Suggested he move up from the .260 to a bigger hunting rifle. You saw my earlier posts in this thread?

Reading the recommendation "For the big bears" - that usually means the big brownies and grizzlies.

And yes, I fully understand that big brownies and grizzlies can be encountered by chance. Those are my boots next to the brown bear tracks in the sand, and my photos of three different brownies I've bumped into while salmon fishing up there. Although I don't hunt them, I'm very cognizant of the size, strength and capabilities of the big Alaskan brownies.

But that's not what the OP is hunting. Many guys go to Alaska, hunt black bear and do just fine with "normal" cartridges. At least one well respected Brown Bear hunting guide (Phil Shoemaker) considers the good old .30-06 with heavy Nosler Partitions completely adequate for hunting even the big brownies.

Regards, Guy

 

[wboggs]

One of my buddies and I had a unprovoked full charge while fishing in a setting such as yours. A female came full speed across the river which was shallow and about 50 yds wide. The guide fired with a .44 pistol and I with a .338 RUM loaded with 250 barnes TSX. At 20 yds I was a little to the side and hit the near shoulder at an angle but at the right height. The bullet took out the spine and the fight was over except for the paper work with the Game Dept. It was experience combined with a lucky shot, mostly lucky shot.
Bill

 

[Dans40X]

wboggs-
Coastal brown sow that charged-cub was in underbrush on far bank of river??
Possibly a FALSE charge,but if threatened shoot first,answer questions later-
Awesome caliber 338 RUM & heavily constructed bullet-

A preposterous statement for 10x(unless you've been there done that)
Any day of the week & twice on Sunday-
I'll take my chances w/ the false charge of a Coastal Brown or Interior Grizz over a juvenile(4-6yr old) Black bear.
The Brown or Grizz if you play your cards right(asume fetal position & play dead) you'll live to tell the story.
The Black Bear,has bad intentions when HE squares off or stalks you-FIGHT TO YOUR LAST BREATH.

If you want to call bears w/ out setting up a bait station,take a woman w/ you during a certain week of the month.
Timothy Treadwell studied the Katmai Brownies for 14yrs.
His last mistake was taking his fiancee with him the 15yr-they were both DEAD w/in a month.
The Boar juvenile Brownies thought she was in heat-GAME ON!!!!!!GAME OVER!!!!!

 

[M700]

"It was experience combined with a lucky shot, mostly lucky shot."

Bill - I hope we never have to make such a shot. You did well.

I don't live up in Alaska, but I've been visiting it since the 1970's, pretty frequently the past ten years or so - these days for the fall silver run. I do love fly fishing for those silvers!

We've had run-ins with the bears, but fortunately have never needed to shoot one. By and large if a guy is smart, there's no problem with the bears. Our group is quick to get off the river before dark, and we stay out of the brush for the most part. I've no interest in surprising a brownie out there - not part of my fishing plans!

OP - what's your guide say about rifles for your black bear hunt? Likely good advice if it comes from a well established guide.

Regards, Guy

 

[wboggs]

Dans40x
It was an old dry female, no cubs involved. She was thin and in poor shape and had not been getting enough salmon to fatten up. She could have had some disease, but there was no obvious injury. She was not in the river and we did not see her until she came out of the brush. Also, we didn't have fish, food, etc., near by.
You live there and know the bears. What do you think happened?
Thanks
Bill

 

[effendude]

I have shot more than 20 black bears with everything from a bow to a .35 Whelan at ranges from 5 yards to 500 yards. The largest was over 400# dead weight on a certified scale. That said, I don't think you can be under-gunned for black bears, especially if grizzly or browns are also present. My favorite long range black bear cartridge is the .300RUM, short range over bait or hound, I love the .35 Whelan. I am taking a .300RUM on an interior grizzly hunt in May of 2012, and will take one of my .375 H&H rifles for a bear on Kodiak in 2013. Considering the cost involved in the hunt, spend a little on a good magnum bolt rifle with a synthetic stock, top it with a good scope and you won't be out much money if you sell it after the trip. The animal you shootm, the guide and ultimately, you, will be much happier with the experience. In the words of Robert Ruark, "Use enough gun".
Good luck,
Scott

 

[FryeGuy]

wboggs,
have to say that I have never been to AK, my guess is you and guide looked mighty tasty, and easier to catch than those pesky little fish. congrats on surviving!