Annealing ?????

[LarryDScott]

Before all the new machines, annealing was done with the
the case sitting in water, and when temp was reached,
you tipped it over for quick cooling.
Was the quick water cooling part of the necessary process??

A friend pointed out to me,when the hot case falls of of any
brand machine in a dry pan, you have softer case necks that
will be highly subject to damage. Has anyone found this to be true??

I haven't annealed my first case, so inquiring minds need to know ????
LDS

 

[JBO]

I have a Bench Source and have no issues

 

[itchyTF]

Water not necessary. Damaged case necks - I suppose it depends on how high you're dropping them from and if they land on the neck. If the necks get over annealed (stress relieved), just looking at them might damage them.

 

[DeltaBravo]

I had the neck issue with my Bench Source when I dropped straight down into my pan. I angled the pan at about 45 degrees and the problem went away. I've never used water or anything else to cool the cases; they do just fine in air.

Dennis

 

[XTR]

What I have read is that quenching (rapid cooling) does not affect brass, the structure is different to steel. I believe that the in steel quenching is usually used to harden the metal.

 

[savagedasher]

Water stops the annealing process . With water you control how far down the case be annealed. If you have half of the case above the water that is how far annealing can go.
When you tip the case over it stops the annealing process. But you still can over anneal with water. Larry

 

[Comrade Terry]

A friend pointed out to me,when the hot case falls of of any
brand machine in a dry pan, you have softer case necks that
will be highly subject to damage. Has anyone found this to be true?

No. That's my experience using a Giraud. Your mileage, of course, may vary.

 

[Shaggy357]

Water stops the annealing process . With water you control how far down the case be annealed. If you have half of the case above the water that is how far annealing can go.
When you tip the case over it stops the annealing process. But you still can over anneal with water. Larry

+1. Water quenching does two important things for me. Stops the process AND cools the brass. More than one hot brass has started a fire. One hot brass will cool quickly. Two hot brass touching will cool a little slower. Have enough to pile on each other and cooling slows more and you start to lose control of time getting the process stopped.....I am afraid of what I may lose by starting a fire, I don't like to burn my fingers, and I like to put as little variation into the process as possible.....a tip to follow the meat and potatoes above.

Steve

 

[savagedasher]

+1. Water quenching does two important things for me. Stops the process AND cools the brass. More than one hot brass has started a fire. One hot brass will cool quickly. Two hot brass touching will cool a little slower. Have enough to pile on each other and cooling slows more and you start to lose control of time getting the process stopped.....I am afraid of what I may lose by starting a fire, I don't like to burn my fingers, and I like to put as little variation into the process as possible.....a tip to follow the meat and potatoes above.

Steve

For years annealing was done with water. Annealing is done by bring brass to a certain temperature . Too much temp makes brass
too soft or over annealed.
My advice is to take a cake pan put enough water in it to where about 1/2 " below the shoulder . In a dark area heat each till you see a slight glow and tip it over in the water.
Is it the best way I think not . But it has worked for years . Larry

 

[itchyTF]

Once you remove the heat source the process will stop. Without water the cases may not cool as fast but they won't get hotter! Dropping them in a cake pan will eliminate a fire.

 

[msinc]

The old idea of standing the cases in water while you anneal them was actually for pistol cases...supposedly so that the case head area would not get annealed. Brass does not "quench" harden in water or oil like steel so no, you don't have to use water and the annealed area will be the same, water or not.

 

[Shynloco]

Once you remove the heat source the process will stop. Without water the cases may not cool as fast but they won't get hotter! ......
.

Which is why I quit using water at all, plus my cases have retained their elasticity longer and case life is longer.

 

[savagedasher]

The old idea of standing the cases in water while you anneal them was actually for pistol cases...supposedly so that the case head area would not get annealed. Brass does not "quench" harden in water or oil like steel so no, you don't have to use water and the annealed area will be the same, water or not.

I don't know what is old but I did it the late . Fiftys I didn't rifle brass . The necks were cracking. Neighbor who was A black smith showed me how and told me the water line is as far as the annealing would go . Larry

 

[XTR]

For the sake of consistency, which is the name of the game in much of what we do, I felt it was prudent to invest in an annealer, so I got a Bench Source and have never looked back. My cases drop into a cardboard box, I've annealed hundreds at a time and never had a fire, or a smoldering, or anything close.

I can tell you with certainty that I get different results from my sizing die when you anneal vs not. I set my dies up to give me .001 to .002 setback on the shoulder when annealed, if I don't anneal most of the cases end up with a setback of none to .001, and noticeable contact when closing the bolt. If they are annealed the bolt drops shut.

I'm sure there are similar changes to neck tension.

 

[Dos XX]

I drop them from Bench Source into a aluminum foil, disposable pan. They are cheap at Wal Mart.

 

[savagedasher]

I drop them from Bench Source into a aluminum foil, disposable pan. They are cheap at Wal Mart.

I use a coffee can metal. Larry

 

[1066]

I use a silicone rubber bread mould - silent and doesn't melt.

 

[TRG300WM]

This is just a cut and past from
http://bisonballistics.com/articles/the-science-of-cartridge-brass-annealing
To Quench or Not to Quench
To anneal brass, all that is required is heat and time. Once you have allowed the structure of the brass to transform, it's done. You can cool it as slowly or as quickly as you like and it won't matter.

The myth that you need to quench brass comes from the requirement to do so when heat treating some kinds of steel. Those steels harden by a very different mechanism that has nothing to do with brass or work hardening at all.

 

[savagedasher]

This is just a cut and past from
http://bisonballistics.com/articles/the-science-of-cartridge-brass-annealing
To Quench or Not to Quench
To anneal brass, all that is required is heat and time. Once you have allowed the structure of the brass to transform, it's done. You can cool it as slowly or as quickly as you like and it won't matter.

The myth that you need to quench brass comes from the requirement to do so when heat treating some kinds of steel. Those steels harden by a very different mechanism that has nothing to do with brass or work hardening at all.

The only thing that water does is limit how far the annealing process will go. Larry

 

[riflewoman]

It also stops grain growth. The old method of heating to a low red in a darkened room got the brass hot enough to start recrystallization and start grain growth. Just heating up to 750 then stopping to air cool is really only stress relieving not true annealing with recrystallization. Especially if annealing is done after each cycle.