F-class Classification breakdown

[gme]

I've shot quite a bit of F-TR. Recent results show the F-TR leaders are getting closer to F-Open scores. That said: regardless the discipline, shooting 98% at 1000 is significantly more difficult than at 600. I was refuting the assertion that the main difference is match availability. I don't think so. Availability plays a part but it is just harder to keep them in the ten ring at 1000.

My home ranges at Camp Pendleton are two 600's, ranges 103 and 116, and one 1000 yard, range 117. I've shot many cleans at 103 and 116. To my knowledge, only one F-Class clean has been shot at 117. That is not because of availability. Both 600 yard and 1000 yard matches are fired most months. It's just harder.

Heh, range 117 is one of the most difficult ranges there is, cleans there are few and far between

 

[Steve Blair]

Heh, range 117 is one of the most difficult ranges there is, cleans there are few and far between

It is, indeed, Gary. I saw you, Trevor Hengehold, Jerry McDonough and Tom Whitaker shoot clean there and I think those are the only sling cleans.

 

[KWeigel]

Been a HM in midrange for a few years. LR is on the list but the closest range is 2.5 hours away. This year I am going to try to hit them all to get classified.

Worked on it today.
New BAT .284 With Mullerworks barrel.

 

[Killshot]

I'd venture a guess that part of it is the added registered match requirements by the NRA.

Until 2015 all of our local Club Match scores were submitted for ranking. When the NRA reporting requirements changed (among them, requiring a non-shooting Statistical Officer) only a few annual Regional Matches meet the reporting requirements.

I understand the need for honest score reporting but they've made it too cumbersome for many match directors.

Bob

 

[JBO]

Been a HM in midrange for a few years. LR is on the list but the closest range is 2.5 hours away. This year I am going to try to hit them all to get classified.

Worked on it today.
New BAT .284 With Mullerworks barrel.

That barrel will help you get HM ! If your in Central WI. Lodi can't be 2.5 hours away can it?

 

[XTR]

I shoot only F-TR. I'm a HM at mid range, and an Expert at LR. I shot to the top of my classification at the FCNC and finished 17th overall in F-TR, I had one bad relay.

I don't think that is particularly difficult to achieve in Mid Range HM in F-TR, should be pretty darned easy in Open. Considering that to win just about any weekend in Mid range you need to put up about 99% or better in TR or Open. (one match last yr in MO you needed 600 with over 40Xs to win in Open)

I do argue that the classification system needs tweaking. Personal opinion is that the scores to achieve HM and M need to be lower so they are not dependent on "good weekends", but the # of shots to classify needs to be at least doubled so one weekend cant do it. Something similar to XTC along the lines of the ~240 shots or so. My reasoning is that classification is not intended as an award, it should be a representation of skill to be used to group those of similar skill sets together for the purposes of competition.

 

[KWeigel]

That barrel will help you get HM ! If your in Central WI. Lodi can't be 2.5 hours away can it?

It's a solid 2. 2.5 is stretching it.

Just googled it. 2 hours and 14 minutes.

 

[MNFinn]

I shoot only F-TR. I'm a HM at mid range, and an Expert at LR. I shot to the top of my classification at the FCNC and finished 17th overall in F-TR, I had one bad relay.

I don't think that is particularly difficult to achieve in Mid Range HM in F-TR, should be pretty darned easy in Open. Considering that to win just about any weekend in Mid range you need to put up about 99% or better in TR or Open. (one match last yr in MO you needed 600 with over 40Xs to win in Open)

I do argue that the classification system needs tweaking. Personal opinion is that the scores to achieve HM and M need to be lower so they are not dependent on "good weekends", but the # of shots to classify needs to be at least doubled so one weekend cant do it. Something similar to XTC along the lines of the ~240 shots or so. My reasoning is that classification is not intended as an award, it should be a representation of skill to be used to group those of similar skill sets together for the purposes of competition.

I agree entirely with this, except maybe the lowering of scores

 

[Nowhere Man]

It's just a lack of 1K ranges. Think of Florida. There are NO 1K ranges in the state. Hell, you gotta drive 600 miles just to get out of Florida.

That's me. Living in SW Florida, the best I can do is 600 yards.

 

[okshooter]

You don't think that shooting 98% at 1000 is harder than at 600? I do.

Steve,

Sorry I have been away from the computer for a few days. Yes I do think it is harder to shoot HM at 1,000 then at 600. I was referring more to the total number of classified shooters in MR compared to LR. I do think you would see a higher percentage of LR HMs though if there were more 1,000 yard ranges available. I was talking about this with a gentleman at our range weekend before last at a range work day. He is a HM at MR and either EX or MA at LR. He commented that he used to travel to west TX or NM for matches and the guys out there shot mostly LR. He said, typically, they beat him at LR and he beat them at MR. The reasoning they all came up with is that they didn't shoot much MR because they could shoot LR. He didn't shoot much LR, but shot a lot of MR. I have only shot a handful of LR matches, but I have noticed that it is different then MR. To me it seems the adjustments are more extreme. At midrange, you adjust in clicks. At LR, you adjust in minutes. That is a different skill set to learn that you aren't going to learn without doing it.

 

[XTR]

I disagree. Until the FCNC at Phoenix in 2014, other than Danny Biggs, there were no long range HM shooters who had made it shooting FTR. Two yrs ago we had several make it after the FCNC in Phoenix. Taking nothing away from their skill, the conditions were good for scoring well, and they took advantage. (any time you put up a 200 in F-TR you are on your game, and Derek did it twice in that yr)



Jim Crofts won the FCNC twice in 2012 and 2013 shooting as an Expert, I believe when Nik Taylor won the F-TR World Championship in 2013 he was shooting as an Expert. (both were still experts after they won, they did not gain classification standings at Raton) In the last two yrs there have been some folks who have cracked the ceiling and gotten up to HM and MA in F-TR, but day in and day out, it is not common to see overall scores for the weekend that hold MA much less HM if the wind is blowing.

The move to heavier bullets in F-TR has definitely helped add a couple of points to the aggs at the end of the day, but still, day in and day out, it's damned hard to post up a 196 average for 6 to 8 matches at 1000 yards with a 308.

 

[SWRichmond]

I disagree. Until the FCNC at Phoenix in 2014, other than Danny Biggs, there were no long range HM shooters who had made it shooting FTR. Two yrs ago we had several make it after the FCNC in Phoenix. Taking nothing away from their skill, the conditions were good for scoring well, and they took advantage. (any time you put up a 200 in F-TR you are on your game, and Derek did it twice in that yr)



Jim Crofts won the FCNC twice in 2012 and 2013 shooting as an Expert, I believe when Nik Taylor won the F-TR World Championship in 2013 he was shooting as an Expert. (both were still experts after they won, they did not gain classification standings at Raton) In the last two yrs there have been some folks who have cracked the ceiling and gotten up to HM and MA in F-TR, but day in and day out, it is not common to see overall scores for the weekend that hold MA much less HM if the wind is blowing.

The move to heavier bullets in F-TR has definitely helped add a couple of points to the aggs at the end of the day, but still, day in and day out, it's damned hard to post up a 196 average for 6 to 8 matches at 1000 yards with a 308.

Emphasis added. Yes, it is, and I like it that way.

Jim won FCNC in 2012 and 2014.

Medic505: I am one of those people who "whined about making it too easy". Guys who hanker after calling themselves Long Range HM and otherwise can't make it should shoot an Open gun in Palma matches. "High Master" should mean "OMFG this person is consistently outstanding". Making HM in FTR should be an outstanding achievement and as it is now it is so. What's the rush? FTR is very very competitive, partly IMO because cleans are so rare.

 

[XTR]

Emphasis added. Yes, it is, and I like it that way.

Look at it from this perspective, I'll use some guys that you shoot with over at Butner:

Would concede that Jim Crofts, Phil Kelley, Tracy Hogg, James Hittle, David Conrath, Doug Boyer and Robbie Burton should all be in competition in the same classification? I think so. Any one of them can win on any given weekend if they are on their game. Thing is they are not, Jim is the only HM in the bunch, David and Phil are MA, and the rest are EX, or they were as of the end of last yr. That is not the way the system is intended to work. Those guys should all be in the same category, that way the other EX shooters are competing with people with similar skill sets.

Do you think you should be shooting in the same classification with James Hittle, Robbie Burton, Doug Boyer and Tracy Hogg?

It is not an award, it is a classification. It should group people of similar skills.

 

[Immike]

It should have been done back "when" just because of the limitations. But look at the equipment advancement that may not have happened if it had. The FTR gang is some fighters for sure! I wish it was seperately classified myself. I got in late on this, btw and I don't shoot it. But you guys have my attention with some of the shooting I've seen lately.

 

[lal357]

i would to get a mr/lr classification but there is nowhere around me within a 4 1/2-5 hr drive to shoot a registered match the one time i got close to being classified i couldn't make it to the last match held that year (blakley ga.) i do shoot 10 mr matches a year (4-600 6 -300 ) but none of the places are nra sanctioned. its not my lack of shooting abilities its places to shoot i've seen/shot against some great shooters (last match @ reese bottom had a shooter shoot a 598-31x and he does it regularly in f-open) most clubs dont want the hassle of dealing with score reporting plus they are affraid with the 5.00 fee to the nra they will loose shooters. its definitely not a cheap sport to shoot in

 

[Immike]

i would to get a mr/lr classification but there is nowhere around me within a 4 1/2-5 hr drive to shoot a registered match the one time i got close to being classified i couldn't make it to the last match held that year (blakley ga.) i do shoot 10 mr matches a year (4-600 6 -300 ) but none of the places are nra sanctioned. its not my lack of shooting abilities its places to shoot i've seen/shot against some great shooters (last match @ reese bottom had a shooter shoot a 598-31x and he does it regularly in f-open) most clubs dont want the hassle of dealing with score reporting plus they are affraid with the 5.00 fee to the nra they will loose shooters. its definitely not a cheap sport to shoot in

Your none the poorer. If your happy at home then enjoy the sport. Classification is a mountain and a ladder for growth. As Wade pointed out that there is great shooters everywhere out there that haven't found the summit of the process.

 

[Stingray]

I would be willing to bet there are NUMEROUS shooters that shoot sporadically who never reach "classification status" because they do not shoot enough. I know at Bayou Rifles we CONSTANTLY have new shooters come to the line and you don't see them again or for a good long while. Work, the cost of COMPETITIVE equipment, family life with young kids, driving distances etc..etc.. probably keep a good number of shooters from being classified, yet they shoot.. This is not a sport for those who are not in a financial position to be competitive.. The rifles alone can be prohibitively expensive, not to mention the constant cost of components! That's why I see the majority of regular shooters are well in advance of 45 years old..

I think that time needed to compete is also a big factor. I always wanted to compete but waited until I retired to have the time to devote to my sport.
Blessed to be a member of Bayou Rifles where we have a 1000K each month and a Mid-range almost every month.

 

[Jennb]

Never did see any information on breakdown between open and ftr. Anyone know?

 

[XTR]

There is no breakout available between F-TR and F Open. We're all just F class in the NRA records.

 

[boltman13]

I am fortunate enough to live only 1 hour from a range that hold 7 MR and LR matches a year. That plus the state championship and BSWN's I have plenty of opportunity to move up in classification. I only shoot F-TR in MR usually with a 223, occasionally a 308 and am not too serious and have an Expert card. I really want to move up in LR and am having a F-Open rifle built to try. I can usually shoot a high Expert score in very mild conditions but fall to pieces when the wind comes up. I once shot a 195 in no wind and followed it with a 178 as the wind got nasty. This lack of talent keeps me a Sharpshooter. When I start to shoot F-Open I hope the better ballistics will compensate for my less than stellar wind reading skill. I know that is cheating but I do not see me advancing any other way. There is a world of difference between MR and LR no mater what you shoot.