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Test Results .30-06 A.I. For F-Open

I have been running either .284 Shehanes or a "straight" .284 for 1000 yard F-Open. With both of these excellent rounds I have done quite well, even though I am not the best L-O-N-G Range shooter. Since I LOVE "new" cartridges, my good friend Vince Pliscofsky (Smoking-Brass) on this Forum, made his case for the .30-06 A.I., so I decided to "pull the trigger" on a barrel.

After speaking extensively with Dave Kiff about a reamer, and since I like a turned neck to 12 thousandths on every case I shoot with, we settled on a .335 neck and a .125 freebore. The freebore is to handle BOTH the 210 JLKs and the 215 Hybrids. My intent was to shoot the JLKs and if they did not perform as expected, I would switch to the 215 Hybrids.

I fireformed the 30-06 Lapua brass that I prepped. I fireformed using 185VLD's jammed 20K INTO the lands, on top of 60.0grs of IMR 7828SSC. This was also a good time to "break in" the barrel. I fireformed 30 pieces for "load development" and 100 for matches. I chose IMR 7828SSC because the case capacity is pretty close to the .284 Shehane and Shehanes, with heavy bullets, perform well with this powder. Additionally, 7828 tends to give more velocity.

So, I initially started with 59.0grs of IMR 7828SSC and ended up at 61.0grs with velocities topping 2850 f.p.s.! However, no matter the charge, seating depth or primer used, I could NOT get it to shoot well enough for me nor were the E.S.'s ever under 30f.p.s. >>> Not nearly good enough to be competitive at 1000 yards. SOOOO BACK TO THE DRAWING BOARD!

Next on the powder list was H4831SC.. It was based on the same reasoning of case capacity being almost identical to the Shehane. I started with 57.5 and went to 60.0grs. Velocities went right up to 2800f.p.s. but accuracy "up there" was not good. But at 58.5, running 2730f.p.s. it shot pretty well and my E.S.'s were inside 12f.p.s. So, let's load up and shoot a match. My load was 58.5 grs of H4831SC using a Wolf primer.

I took the load to "The Golden Triangle Gun Club" in Beaumont, a fairly "protected" range, that has only "Approved Matches", and is perfect for load testing>>>it is a 600 yard range. Well the rifle shot "fairly well", but at 600 yards, there was more vertical than I want. SO, once again BACK TO THE DRAWING BOARD... Next powder H4350...

After consultation with several loading manuals and "Smoking-Brass", I settled on 53.0grs to 55.0grs. for testing.. WELL as soon as I started load development at my "normal" 300 yards, I could IMMEDIATELY see this IS the powder for this cartridge. BOTH 54.8 and 55.0 shot VERY well with single digit E.S's and excellent accuracy. I went twice for 1000 yard "testing" of these loads at Bayou Rifles. The first time I ONLY shot the 54.8gr load which shot between 4.00 and 4.50 inches on 2 different days. On "Day 2" of testing is when I shot the 54.8 and then the 55.0grs load. The 55.0gr load shot a 2" / 5 shot group! 3 bullets had NO PAPER between them with 2 shots opeing up the groups to the 2" spread! WOW! BUT, being the kind of "anal-analysis" type and having only shot the 55.0gr group ONE TIME, I can NOT say "this is the load">> If I do not KNOW it is repeatable, it can not be used without testing. So, I loaded up 2 loads at the 54.8 and 1 at the 55.0gr load, to shoot / test at the 1000 yard match.

RESULTS: This past Sunday, we had our (Bayou Rifles) normal 1st Sunday of the month 1000 yard match..

MATCH-1: I shot a 197-6X with MORE vertical than the previous testing showed. I was a bit dumbfounded. I was wondering WHY there was vertical covering most of the 10 ring! NOT, NOT, NOT what previous testing indicated. BUT after the match, I watched on Match 1 of the other shooters as they shot and THEY HAD VERTICAL too! So maybe it was not the rifle. We had 33 degree weather at the first match and BRIGHT sunshine. There was a good coating of frost on the ground.. I thought, maybe>>HOPEFULLY the thermals coming off the cold ground, under the bright sun, was causing the "excessive" vertical.

MATCH-2: By now the sun had warmed the ground.. The heat waves (mirage) was certainly UP but the winds were switching VERY QUICKLY and you had to be on your toes. Well I scored 195-?? can't remember the "X" count. BUT the vertical COMPLETELY disappeared! WOA! The 55.0gr load was shooting EXACTLY the way I want. It held a VERY TIGHT waterline!

MATCH-3: Well the winds decided to B-L-O-W and SWITCH with ferocity! EVERYONES score went into the toilet>>>including mine! I shot a 188-?? maybe 5-6 "X's" >> Can't remember. BUT it was not the rifles fault>>>My "less than stellar" wind reading ability was to blame! The FIRST MATCHES' thermals were in fact the culprit! The 54.8gr load held a vertical as flat as a pancake! I was T-Totally impressed!

I really think that a 30-06 A.I. with either a 210 JLK or if someone wanted to use the 215 Hybrids, would be an EXCELLENT performer for the 1000 yard F-Open Competition! The recoil with the 210's is no more noticeable than the 180 Hybrids in the Shehane. With a 1-10 twist 5R Bartlein barrel, torque is VERY controllable, being almost not even noticeable.. SOOO, if you are a guy like me that likes to "tinker" with new cartridges, you should seriously consider the 30-06 A.I., an EXCELLENT cartridge indeed!

The load for competition will be: Lapua brass with necks turned to 12 thousandths neck wall thickness, 210 JLKs seated 10K INTO the lands, 54.8grs of H4350 and CCI BR-2 primers. Velocity is 2730 f.p.s.
 
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I shot 1000 yard with guy who used a .30 Gibbs. Based oon the 30/06 case. It was quite a performer. He shot in an open class with the magnums. Worked great!
 
I shot 1000 yard with guy who used a .30 Gibbs. Based oon the 30/06 case. It was quite a performer. He shot in an open class with the magnums. Worked great!
Yes the "Gibbs Cases" are shoulders blown forward and a 40 degree on it. They are great performers.. It would be like a 6mmBR turned into a Dasher.. The Gibbs are just like that.. Who knows, maybe the guys who "created" the Dasher got their idea from Jerry Gibbs! Uh I THINK his first name was Jerry>>but not sure! LOL!!!
 
Ben, on your reamer did the compensate for the shorter case length after fire forming? I have a 700 LA(standard bolt face), trigger and stock that needs a barrel. How's recoil?
 
Ben, on your reamer did the compensate for the shorter case length after fire forming? I have a 700 LA(standard bolt face), trigger and stock that needs a barrel. How's recoil?
Mr. Majestic, I am not sure on the length of the reamer. BUT I spent about 45 mins on the phone with Kiff to get the correct dimensions for everything. All I know is that it works and I keep my barrel / chamber necks clean so no carbon rings ever form there.. Recoil is just about like the .284 Shehane with 180's.. But both are shot in 17 pound F-Open rigs..
 
Mr. Majestic, I am not sure on the length of the reamer. BUT I spent about 45 mins on the phone with Kiff to get the correct dimensions for everything. All I know is that it works and I keep my barrel / chamber necks clean so no carbon rings ever form there.. Recoil is just about like the .284 Shehane with 180's.. But both are shot in 17 pound F-Open rigs..
You mention single digit ES's , what speeds {FPS} were you getting ??
 
Do you think its necessary to be an ackley or would just a plain 30-06 do the same job without all the forming?

That is an interesting question. There is NOT a lot of difference between the "regular" 30-06 and it's "A.I. Sibling".. The reason I chose the A.I. is that I have had GREAT success with other A.I.'s, especially in the accuracy department. It has been MY experience that the 40 degree shoulder somehow "aides" somewhat in the accuracy department. I have had 6mm Rems. and the A.I.'s and the A.I.'s outshot the standard round. My .260 A.I. is very close to the accuracy level of my 6 Dashers! It was on this premise that I chose the A.I. version, NOT TO MENTION that cases only need to be trimmed about once in 5-6 firings!

Do I think you can do the same thing with the "Standard 30-06">>>probably, but you will be trimming those sloping shoulders after every match! There is also a minor benefit of about 2-3 percent additional powder capacity>>not much>>but it is there nonetheless..
 
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I have a 30-06ai and like it alot. From what ive seen its about like a 308ai and really doesnt improve the parent much. But case trimming would be a plus
 
I have a 30-06ai and like it alot. From what ive seen its about like a 308ai and really doesnt improve the parent much. But case trimming would be a plus
I have a standard .30-06 with a Serengeti (sp?) chamber. I also found best accuracy and lowest sd with H4350. Use 215 Bergers with a mild load giving 2650. German Salazar helped me with the initial planning. He knows as much about the .30-06 as anybody I've ever talked to.
Bill
 
I have a standard .30-06 with a Serengeti (sp?) chamber. I also found best accuracy and lowest sd with H4350. Use 215 Bergers with a mild load giving 2650. German Salazar helped me with the initial planning. He knows as much about the .30-06 as anybody I've ever talked to.
Bill
talk to Kiff (print # 57022) it is my best version,,,I use 30-06 brass to make both a 7mm and 30 cal version (7/07 and 30/07) ,,,,I would change the FB to ~.180" for the 210 class bullets,,,,I FF using UnivClays and TP,,,I use a 280 AI Redding FL type S die with the neck opened up to resize both cals....Roger
 
It was at least fifteen years ago that I pointed out, to Dave Kiff, the error which Ackley had made on the original drawing. This error resulted in a neck, on the chambering reamer, which is roughly .031" too long. This was if one chambered according to standard practice, which is .004" short using the 30/06 "go" gauge, and headspaced the parent brass on the juncture of the neck and shoulder. During our discussion, Dave was somewhat undecided about what to do about this but thought he might alter the dimensions on PTG reamers but wasn't real sure since that would be like admitting to a mistake. All reamers,made by all the makers, from the inception, have incorporated this error.
So, if one chambers to 30/06 "go", minus .004" (standard practice) the reamer will cut a chamber which is roughly .031" too long . At least you would never have to trim! If you chambered for an overall chamber length of around 2.500, you would have to push the juncture of the neck and shoulder back by about.031". This amount is variable because this dimension on the brass varies quite a bit.
When Ackley produced the drawings for his AI cartridges, he drew them with the neck/shoulder juncture set back by .004" and established the new datum line based on this dimension. With the 30/06, drew the chamber with the headspace dimension, at the datum line, at -.004". I believe this was just an inadvertent error which was never caught until I looked at my reamer and thought, "Gee, that neck seems kind of long", or words to that effect, and started checking.
Anyway, I built a 30/06 AI "F" open rifle for a friend at that time. With a 10 twist, 28 inch, Shilen barrel, on a sleeved Remington, it shot quite well but didn't do anything my own standard '06 would not do as well. I did not shoot that rifle in competition and the owner, who was nearing the end of his shooting career, was not able to get the best out of it.
I chambered it with the long neck and recommended that he use 270 brass to close the gap.
Just after this, I chambered a 30 Gibbs for my Dad, also on a sleeved Remington. I always felt that the main advantage to this chambering was that it filled a lot of time with forming brass etc. Being a lazy sirt of guy, I always figured the plain 30/06 was a lot better choice. WH
 

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