Burris Sig. Zee rings

[Switchbarrel]

I have an opportunity to go shoot at a friends ranch, he says going "cross canyon" is just over a mile (he told me the yardage, it was under 1800). I don't have any big boomers & I don't have any lower power scopes with 80-90-100 MOA built into them.

What I do have is multiple .284 Shehanes, NF 12-42x BR's & Comps, Sightron 10-50's. 20 MOA bases are already on the rifle(s). So I'm looking for a poor mans extreme tapered base solution to try this out without buying anything if possible. I don't think it's something I'll get to do enough to wanna spend the money. I'd like to keep from maxing out the scopes' erector adjustments so I'll have both windage & elevation available when needed.

I've got a selection of 30mm Burris Signature Zee rings in different heights.

I was wondering if anyone's ever played around with using different height rings front and rear? (i.e., medium ring in front & high in the rear or High/extra high, etc.). The medium & high are the closest in heights.

Based on the different ring heights that Burris lists, it looks like you could play around with the ring spacing and offset inserts to add or subtract elevation as needed. If I'm doing the math correctly, 60-80 MOA (or more) looks pretty easy to obtain. Using JBM, it looks like I'll need ~70ish MOA to get the 180 hybrids to a mile.

I'm also wondering if there's enough clearance with the inserts to accommodate the scopes' more extreme incline & not mar its finish...?

Before I go taking things apart, re-doing set-ups, going to the range to verify elevation changes, etc., has anyone tried this in the past? Anything I'm not thinking of? My base is high enough, the scope bell should clear the barrel.

Thanks,
Rick

 

[MarkS]

I have an opportunity to go shoot at a friends ranch, he says going "cross canyon" is just over a mile (he told me the yardage, it was under 1800). I don't have any big boomers & I don't have any lower power scopes with 80-90-100 MOA built into them.

What I do have is multiple .284 Shehanes, NF BR's & Comps, Sightron 10-50's.
20 MOA bases already on the rifle(s). So I'm looking for a poor mans extreme tapered base solution to try this out without buying anything if possible. I don't think it's something I'll get to do enough to wanna spend the money. I'd like to keep from maxing out the scopes' erector adjustments so I'll have both windage & elevation available when needed.

I've got a selection of 30mm Burris Signature Zee rings in different heights.

I was wondering if anyone's ever played around with using different height rings front and rear? (i.e., medium ring in front & high in the rear or High/extra high, etc.). The medium & high are the closest in heights.

Based on the different ring heights that Burris lists, it looks like you could play around with the ring spacing and offset inserts to add or subtract elevation as needed. If I'm doing the math correctly, 60-80 MOA (or more) looks pretty easy to obtain. Using JBM, it looks like I'll need ~70ish MOA to get the 180 hybrids to a mile.

I'm also wondering if there's enough clearance with the inserts to accommodate the scopes' more extreme incline & not mar its finish...?

Before I go taking things apart, re-doing set-ups, going to the range to verify elevation changes, etc., has anyone tried this in the past? Anything I'm not thinking of? My base is high enough, the scope bell should clear the barrel.

Thanks,
Rick

Your 284 should be fine. Your NF BR have 60 MOA, My Sightron 8 x 32 have 70 MOA. How much do you have left, on your scopes? Your base has 20 MOA the Zee's will give you another 20 moa. You may be able to use different height rings, be careful the scope is not in a bind, and bend the scope.

Mark

 

[BSJ]

In the same height rings; wouldn't a +20 on the bottom of the rear and -20 on the bottom of the front give you 40 MOA? In addition to the 20 MOA base giving you 60 MOA total to start with.

 

[Switchbarrel]

Your 284 should be fine. Your NF BR have 60 MOA, My Sightron 8 x 32 have 70 MOA. How much do you have left, on your scopes? Your base has 20 MOA the Zee's will give you another 20 moa. You may be able to use different height rings, be careful the scope is not in a bind, and bend the scope.

Mark

Hi Mark-

I'm sure the .284S will make it, even though it's calculated to go subsonic around 1500 yds. or so. Should've mentioned, my NF BR's are all 12-42x, so only 40 moa internal adjustment. The Comp on my heavy gun has 53 MOA elevation available with a 100 yard zero (it's nearly bottomed out). I could max out the elevation and use the inserts to come up with the needed elevation but, I would be maxed out...trying not to do that. The inserts will only give me 20 MOA if I placed them at the magical 3.xx" apart, any further apart & it won't even be the full 20. I'm trying to come up with a way to start off with the scope as close to optical center as possible (in case it's windy or JBM or my math is off). Basically looking for about ~55-60 MOA in the mount(s) to bring my elevation up some from the bottom now.

Yes, I'm hoping there's enough clearance between the scope tube and ring bodies with the inserts to keep from marring my tube. Which is one of the reasons I'm asking here to see if anyone's done this or if I'll be forging new ground.



Hi Brian-

The 30mm Burris rings only come with +/- 10 MOA inserts. The 20's are only available for the 1" rings.



Thanks guys. Anybody tried this in the past?


-Rick
(for any Burris insert police, I know they aren't MOA, they're in inches)

 

[NWnewguy]

Some of the guys at my range use the Burris inserts for increased elevation on their rimfires when shooting the silhouette courses. I have never heard of any problems with it. I wouldn't try the two different height rings though. You might be in new territory there and I doubt it's territory you want to be in.

 

[Thauglor]

You can cut a can and put shims under the rear insert of the sig rings.

 

[Raptor]

You can cut a can and put shims under the rear insert of the sig rings.

You can cut a can and put shims under the rear insert of the sig rings.

I have a straight 284 and have shot it out to a mile. I shoot 162AMAX bullets and was very surprised that I was able to shoot to a mile with it. I have a MK4 Leupold 4.5x14 on it and I use the Burris Sig. rings on it. I have the +10 and -10 set up on mine with std. dual dove tail bases. I shot out to a mile two different times and the first time it took me 63.5MOA to be on at a mile and the second time it took 66MOA to get on at a mile. The actual distance was 1777yds if my memory serves me correctly. Hope this helps!!!

 

[Switchbarrel]

I have a straight 284 and have shot it out to a mile. I shoot 162AMAX bullets and was very surprised that I was able to shoot to a mile with it. I shot out to a mile two different times and the first time it took me 63.5MOA to be on at a mile and the second time it took 66MOA to get on at a mile. The actual distance was 1777yds if my memory serves me correctly. Hope this helps!!!

It's reassuring to know I'm in the right ballpark & confirms I need some leeway left in the scope adjustments, thank you.
Any idea what caused the MOA difference between your two trips? I.e., load change or different atmospheric conditions? Thank you

-Rick

 

[DRNewcomb]

I'm also wondering if there's enough clearance with the inserts to accommodate the scopes' more extreme incline & not mar its finish...?

A lot depends on the distance between the rings. The farther apart the less elevation is imparted. In the case of my setup, I calculated that the ±.01 inserts delivered a touch over 14 MOA, not the 20 that is commonly claimed. So, if your mounts are far apart you may be able to get away with your plan, whereas you might not be able to if the mounts are close together. Of course, you can attach the lower halves of the rings to the bases and check clearances before you commit to anything.

 

[slm9s]

The MOA given by the inserts depends on the distance between the two rings. All you'd ever need to know about them:
http://www.accurateshooter.com/optics/calculating-elevation-shift-with-burris-signature-rings/

If trying the "2 different height rings" approach, it might work. You could even do some bubba gunsmithing and grind off the medial aspect of the metal part of the ring that might touch your scope if its close. It might be TOO much cant however.

 

[hoz53]

I have an opportunity to go shoot at a friends ranch, he says going "cross canyon" is just over a mile (he told me the yardage, it was under 1800). I don't have any big boomers & I don't have any lower power scopes with 80-90-100 MOA built into them.

What I do have is multiple .284 Shehanes, NF 12-42x BR's & Comps, Sightron 10-50's. 20 MOA bases are already on the rifle(s). So I'm looking for a poor mans extreme tapered base solution to try this out without buying anything if possible. I don't think it's something I'll get to do enough to wanna spend the money. I'd like to keep from maxing out the scopes' erector adjustments so I'll have both windage & elevation available when needed.

I've got a selection of 30mm Burris Signature Zee rings in different heights.

I was wondering if anyone's ever played around with using different height rings front and rear? (i.e., medium ring in front & high in the rear or High/extra high, etc.). The medium & high are the closest in heights.

Based on the different ring heights that Burris lists, it looks like you could play around with the ring spacing and offset inserts to add or subtract elevation as needed. If I'm doing the math correctly, 60-80 MOA (or more) looks pretty easy to obtain. Using JBM, it looks like I'll need ~70ish MOA to get the 180 hybrids to a mile.

I'm also wondering if there's enough clearance with the inserts to accommodate the scopes' more extreme incline & not mar its finish...?

Before I go taking things apart, re-doing set-ups, going to the range to verify elevation changes, etc., has anyone tried this in the past? Anything I'm not thinking of? My base is high enough, the scope bell should clear the barrel.

Thanks,
Rick

I have an opportunity to go shoot at a friends ranch, he says going "cross canyon" is just over a mile (he told me the yardage, it was under 1800). I don't have any big boomers & I don't have any lower power scopes with 80-90-100 MOA built into them.

What I do have is multiple .284 Shehanes, NF 12-42x BR's & Comps, Sightron 10-50's. 20 MOA bases are already on the rifle(s). So I'm looking for a poor mans extreme tapered base solution to try this out without buying anything if possible. I don't think it's something I'll get to do enough to wanna spend the money. I'd like to keep from maxing out the scopes' erector adjustments so I'll have both windage & elevation available when needed.

I've got a selection of 30mm Burris Signature Zee rings in different heights.

I was wondering if anyone's ever played around with using different height rings front and rear? (i.e., medium ring in front & high in the rear or High/extra high, etc.). The medium & high are the closest in heights.

Based on the different ring heights that Burris lists, it looks like you could play around with the ring spacing and offset inserts to add or subtract elevation as needed. If I'm doing the math correctly, 60-80 MOA (or more) looks pretty easy to obtain. Using JBM, it looks like I'll need ~70ish MOA to get the 180 hybrids to a mile.

I'm also wondering if there's enough clearance with the inserts to accommodate the scopes' more extreme incline & not mar its finish...?

Before I go taking things apart, re-doing set-ups, going to the range to verify elevation changes, etc., has anyone tried this in the past? Anything I'm not thinking of? My base is high enough, the scope bell should clear the barrel.

Thanks,
Rick

I have an opportunity to go shoot at a friends ranch, he says going "cross canyon" is just over a mile (he told me the yardage, it was under 1800). I don't have any big boomers & I don't have any lower power scopes with 80-90-100 MOA built into them.

What I do have is multiple .284 Shehanes, NF 12-42x BR's & Comps, Sightron 10-50's. 20 MOA bases are already on the rifle(s). So I'm looking for a poor mans extreme tapered base solution to try this out without buying anything if possible. I don't think it's something I'll get to do enough to wanna spend the money. I'd like to keep from maxing out the scopes' erector adjustments so I'll have both windage & elevation available when needed.

I've got a selection of 30mm Burris Signature Zee rings in different heights.

I was wondering if anyone's ever played around with using different height rings front and rear? (i.e., medium ring in front & high in the rear or High/extra high, etc.). The medium & high are the closest in heights.

Based on the different ring heights that Burris lists, it looks like you could play around with the ring spacing and offset inserts to add or subtract elevation as needed. If I'm doing the math correctly, 60-80 MOA (or more) looks pretty easy to obtain. Using JBM, it looks like I'll need ~70ish MOA to get the 180 hybrids to a mile.

I'm also wondering if there's enough clearance with the inserts to accommodate the scopes' more extreme incline & not mar its finish...?

Before I go taking things apart, re-doing set-ups, going to the range to verify elevation changes, etc., has anyone tried this in the past? Anything I'm not thinking of? My base is high enough, the scope bell should clear the barrel.

Thanks,
Rick

Why not put a 40 moa pic rail on and use the zee ring inserts to get around 60 moa then at 1000 you could point the scope down with the inserts if you needed to?

 

[rayporter]

a medium in the front and a high in the rear will not have your scope touching the rings. there is enough clearance that you could have a low and an extra high [ if they made them in one inch] the biggest problem may be your scope objective hitting the barrel.

if you need a base that is super high so the scope will clear the barrel search for an aimtech model ARM 10 which fits a long rem 700. it will add an extra half inch of height to you scope.

burris claims a medium ring is .77 high and a high ring is .89 high for a difference of .120. using burris spacing of 3.6 inches this is an extra 120 moa. if you use the 6 inch spacing it is 72 moa of elevation.

so a 6inch spacing should put you right in the sweet spot and allow you to use the inserts for windage , or to fine tune elevation.
luck-ray

 

[Raptor]

It's reassuring to know I'm in the right ballpark & confirms I need some leeway left in the scope adjustments, thank you.
Any idea what caused the MOA difference between your two trips? I.e., load change or different atmospheric conditions? Thank you

-Rick

The difference was due to several things actually DA and temp was one different barrel but same load and basically used the same data as the old rifle. As I remember the first time I shot it was in the 90s The next time it was in the late fall. So I am sure that is why there was a difference.

 

[Eric Leonard]

with a 20 moa taper base and the 12-42 NF BR should be close to bottomed out at 100 yards,,with the Burris rings and .010 offset inserts should get you 20 inches high at 100 ,which should be the same as a 40 taper base and regular rings,,which will in theory max your scope out about 60 inches high at 100 yards,,I have used aluminum foil between the bottom of the inside of the rear ring and the insert to get more elevation,,you can fold the foil enough times to get a .020 thickness between the ring and insert should raise you up another 20 inches and get you where you will be 80 inches high at 100 which should be enough to be around 15 inches from the top of your adjustments at 65 inches high which should be just above the center of your adjustments 65 MOA above 100 yards,,

 

[sdbob]

What scope reticle do you have? Could gain another 20moa in hold over.

 

[Switchbarrel]

burris claims a medium ring is .77 high and a high ring is .89 high for a difference of .120. using burris spacing of 3.6 inches this is an extra 120 moa. if you use the 6 inch spacing it is 72 moa of elevation.

so a 6inch spacing should put you right in the sweet spot and allow you to use the inserts for windage , or to fine tune elevation.
luck-ray

This is exactly what I was thinking (& why I was inquiring to see if anyone's actually tried it). I was even thinking I could use the inserts to take some elevation out if need be.

Thinking I'll try the NF Comp scope since it has the smallest objective of the 3.

-Rick

 

[Lesloan]

In the same height rings; wouldn't a +20 on the bottom of the rear and -20 on the bottom of the front give you 40 MOA? In addition to the 20 MOA base giving you 60 MOA total to start with.

In 30mm rings, only +/-.010" inserts are available. Only Burris knows why.

 

[Iowa Fox]

In 30mm rings, only +/-.010" inserts are available. Only Burris knows why.

I have always wondered what their reasoning is. I could sure use some 20s.

I think long range shooting has gotten increasingly popular within the last 5 years and will continue to gain momentum. Its a good increased sales opportunity for the folks that want to offer the products to the folks shooting it and I'm not just speaking of plastic ring inserts.

 

[BoydAllen]

Iooga Iooga! Pay close attention. The new Burris signature tactical rings have .020 inserts availble.
http://www.burrisoptics.com/mounting-systems/rings/xtr-signature-rings
With a NF you have such a strong tube that you can play with ring spacing on the short side. As many of you know to figure out the offset for a single ring you divide x (the offset that you are looking for) by the center to center spacing of your rings (front of ring to front of ring, or back to back) and set that fraction equal to the elevation change that you are looking for in inches at 100 yards, over 3600. This would be in the form of one fraction equaling another, then you cross multiply and solve for X. As an example: If you are dealing with ring spacing of 4" and a desired difference of elevation at 100 yards of say 10 inches, you would write a fraction with x on top, and 4 on the bottom, write an equal sign to the right of this fraction and then write another one to the right of that. Putting 10 over 3600 (the number of inches in 100 yards) Cross multiplying you get 3600x = 10(4), or 3600x = 40. The next step is to divide both sides by 3600 which leaves you with
X= 40/3600. Dividing 40 by 3600 gives you .011", which means that the closest insert pair would be -.010 and + .010.

 

[DRNewcomb]

... to figure out the offset for a single ring you divide x (the offset that you are looking for) by the center to center spacing of your rings (front of ring to front of ring, or back to back) .......X= 40/3600. Dividing 40 by 3600 gives you .011", which means that the closest insert pair would be -.010 and + .010.

Or tan(MOA/60)*C = A, where C is the scope ring spacing and A is the offset. At small angles you can also use sin.