Annealing????????????????

[msinc]

I would like to ask a few quick questions regarding annealing brass cases...

1. How important do you believe it is to always anneal with the exact same level of consistent temperature???? {e.g., absolutely every case you anneal must be done at exactly XXX degrees for XX seconds}

2. How do you measure or gauge whether or not you were successful, or accomplished anything by annealing your cases???

Thanks in advance for any replies or information!!!!

 

[riflewoman]

In the early 1970s Handloader magazine had an article on annealing with a design for an annealing machine. The machine was very similar to the rotary disc machines now on the market. But in the article it specified the time and temperature parameters somewhat but really didn't specify much. But it did come up with a method of determining the effectiveness of the annealing process. They used a mandrel of known dimension in the case mouth and then squeezed them together in a small vise. Note that this is a small vise! They then measured the flat par of the oval. The spring back was used to determine the effectiveness of the anneal. In one instance they over annealed a case and determined that spring back was minimal.

The advantage of this method is that it is simple and repeatable. For controls they used a batch of new factory case and fired them measuring the spring back after firing each time. The found that the brass was pretty hard from cold work after about 5 firings.

 

[LHSmith]

I would like to ask a few quick questions regarding annealing brass cases...

1. How important do you believe it is to always anneal with the exact same level of consistent temperature???? {e.g., absolutely every case you anneal must be done at exactly XXX degrees for XX seconds}

2. How do you measure or gauge whether or not you were successful, or accomplished anything by annealing your cases???

Thanks in advance for any replies or information!!!!

Regarding #1- Extremely important IF you are after the absolute best in accuracy. "Attempt to do everything EXACTLY the same" is the No.1 tenet in Benchrest. The caveat is brass from different manufacturers will require tweaking the time/ temperature to achieve the same anneal.
Regarding #2- Results on target trumps seating gauge readings/ or "feel" during seating process. To fully benefit from "reading" target results, however, will require you to have a gun/ load you can trust- a well established baseline....not just a few small groups that were cherry picked.
If your question is really asking are annealing machines really necessary? IMHO -Yes......I find it difficult to believe annealing manually can even come close to duplicating the annealing consistency of a machine like a Benchsource.

 

[msinc]

Thanks very much for the replies so far...anyone else?????

 

[Mozella]

I would like to ask a few quick questions regarding annealing brass cases...

1. How important do you believe it is to always anneal with the exact same level of consistent temperature???? {e.g., absolutely every case you anneal must be done at exactly XXX degrees for XX seconds}

2. How do you measure or gauge whether or not you were successful, or accomplished anything by annealing your cases???

Thanks in advance for any replies or information!!!!

Actually, I don't anneal all my cases the same way. Those with thicker necks get annealed for a longer time. With a good machine, adjusting the time to fractions of a second is easy; with a drill............ not so much. Most folks, including me, use a temperature sensitive paint on a few representative cases to judge temperature and calibrate our machines that way. From there it's easy to give each case of that type an identical treatment.

Although some folks claim that they can look at their three shot group and tell you the ambient temperature and how many cups of coffee they drank that morning based on their group size and shape, I believe that measuring tiny changes in precision associated with a particular test parameter by measuring group size is something quite tricky to do reliably. There are just so many factors involved by the time the bullet arrives at the target. But the tendency to read the tea leaves, so to speak, is strong because group size is typically the holy grail most of us are searching for.

If you're interested in proof that annealing might help your group size, I would suggest that you load a reliable recipe into a batch of cases fired several times but not all the same; i.e. some shot once, some twice, some five times, etc. Then, load an identical batch into freshly annealed brass. Using a good chronograph, compare the ES and SD of the two batches. That should tell you something, even though low SD figures don't always translate into small groups. At least you'll have some easily measurable data to study. Another way would be to measure seating force, if you have the equipment to do so accurately. Use the same test subjects but compare seating force scatter on the two batches.

In fact, regular annealing produces necks which are more uniform than those which have been shot an unknown number of times. I think most re-loaders would agree with that. Does that uniformity translate directly into more consistent "neck tension". That's harder to say. I think it does. Measuring seating resistance and/or SD figures is pretty easy, but they don't give trophies to the guy with the best SD numbers. Winners shoot small groups close to the X and proving that annealing will absolutely help with that goal is not easy. Keep in mind, some very good marksmen (champions in fact) don't anneal and some guys who can't hit a paper plate at 50 yards do anneal, so you'll have to make up your own mind about what actually works and what doesn't. There's plenty of anecdotal evidence, but scant scientific testing which relates annealing to performance at the target.

If all else fails, be sure to show off the color change on the necks of your annealed cases to your friends at the range. Make up a story about how well your expensive annealing machine works and how cool your brass looks now that you anneal. Remember, the truth is often over rated, at least that's what one of our Presidents told me.

I gotta' go now and get back to weight-sorting my primers.

 

[msinc]

Thanks a million for the very informative posts to my thread everyone...very well thought out and very good points indeed from all of you.