Handguns 95% Effective ln Bear Attacks

Discussion in 'Varminter & Hunting Forum' started by sw282, Sep 8, 2019.

  1. 284winner

    284winner Gold $$ Contributor

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    The problem with that scenario is most times when people are hiking in bear country (especially Grizzly), they aren't just meandering aimlessly looking to view bears or locate bears unless they are hunting them, in which case they have the tool for the job already. Most times they are bow hunting or backpacking, fishing or maybe even hiking a trail for exercise. Many cases a shotgun can not be carried and accessed rapidly enough if a bear does attack. That is why a side arm is typically carried. They are easier to draw and lighter, less bulky. A shotgun is the ideal weapon in a perfect world for defense of a bear attack. IMO, the next best is a carry sidearm that the carrier is very proficient with both fast and accurate. To me as in hunting with a rifle, accuracy Trump's shear power. Find a cartridge that penetrates several inches of skull or main torso and that you are confident drawing and shooting fast and accurate. Be prepared for the worse when in bear country. Nobody ever thinks they'll be a victim of any predator.
     
  2. Laurie

    Laurie

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    There you are: what you want and need for bear defence - a 1911 chambered in 38 Super (very old ad) e7a5c9128f634d8907b8608d089e7fe1.jpg
     
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  3. boltfluter

    boltfluter Gold $$ Contributor

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    Probably the best defense to have in bear country is a dog or two. They will distract the bear so you can shoot it, or if needed, shoot yourself to avoid a more painful death! Job well done. :D:D:p

    Paul
     
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  4. Jesse Gietzen

    Jesse Gietzen

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    pretty sure that was in death in the long grass by peter capstick. otherwise just casually browsing this thread.
     
  5. SPJ

    SPJ Gold $$ Contributor

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    Oh yeah
    ( Bear Country Period)
    I always look carefully when I step out of my cabin late at night. I keep a 12 gauge coach Gun handy.
    Damn sure lock the doors at night
     
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  6. akajun

    akajun

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    I believe it, I saw a shooting where a 300 lb man was hit mid torso with birdshot from about 5 feet away
    Literally blew a hole all the way through him.
     
  7. fantastic

    fantastic

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    When I was a kid we would pepper spray black bears in the Junk yard. Didn't do much in making them move.Make them mad. They would chase us. But we were dumb kid and it was fun. We would drive away in the truck. If you are undergunned spay may make you feel safer. But the was a recent black bear killing...with a pellet gun. Now the guys getting charged. He was just trying to scare it. Than that recent guy in the news who let all the animals loose. A Leo killed a Blacky with his service gun 2 shoots? I forget and don't know what the caliber was.The noise from gun maybe all you need? If you shoot it then it's getting mad. I would carry as big as I could. but IMO at least a .357 or 10mm.But if you search the internet enough you can find a study that will say what you wish to hear.
     
  8. AckleymanII

    AckleymanII Silver $$ Contributor

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    I would want a Rem 11/87, 1100, Beretta 12ga gas operated shotgun with a Mag extension boosting to ten shot, side saddle with extra rounds for slugs and 000 3" buck shot.

    I have called in two black bears in N. Arizona using a coarse sounding hand call, and they can run like the fastest race horse you can imagine.
     
  9. Park ranger

    Park ranger

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    And take your sling off. It will cause you to become lazy and let your guard down. This park ranger agrees with your post.
     
  10. NZ_Fclass

    NZ_Fclass

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    More population - more "interaction" = not enough guns
     
  11. NZ_Fclass

    NZ_Fclass

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    Were bears smaller back then??? LOL
     
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  12. fantastic

    fantastic

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    All this talk about handguns to use against a bear. not matter the caliber or make of the gun. without some accuracy and shot placement. Lung shot is always the best. bear are strong and even after being shot they can still attack.
     
  13. Laurie

    Laurie

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    They must have been! :) :( Still, better than a 38 Special snubby I suppose.

    IIRC, this is a pre-war advert and the then new 38 Super was promoted as the super-velocity do-anything cartridge ideal for self-defence, law enforcers and outdoorsmen. It wouldn't be the first (or last) time smaller calibre high velocity cartridges were advertised as capable of killing anything in the great outdoors. I've read many times that several individuals (what we'd now call 'early adopters') lost their lives in Africa and Alaska early in the last century demonstrating that while the hot 280 Ross rifle cartridge often did what Ross claimed - achieved lightning instant kills often at extended ranges - in too many other instances it failed to stop the charging bear / lion / Cape buffalo.
     
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  14. garandman

    garandman Bolt Gun Bodacious Gold $$ Contributor

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    They knew Glocks stink ...even way back then....
     
    Last edited: Sep 15, 2019
  15. Laurie

    Laurie

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    Can't comment on Glocks, never even handled one, but I liked the 1911 a lot. I had a beat-up original 1911, 45ACP naturally, with a C prefix serial number which I tracked as being made in 1917. Her Majesty's government took that off me after the Dunblane school shooting when handguns (other than muzzle-loading or cap and ball BP types) were moved into the 'Section 5, Prohibited Weapons category under our Firearms Acts.
     
  16. NZ_Fclass

    NZ_Fclass

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    Back in the 1980's when the UK citizens were permitted pistols, I was member of Derby Pistol Club. 3 visitors made an appointment to learn to shoot a 44 Mag (mod29), as they were heading for the Arctic. It was compulsory for explorers to be armed ( not sure if it still is?) against Polar Bears. Anyway, as you can imagine, the 44 is not a beginners plinker, and the session was a disaster. Knowing the gun shop owner, the club made arrangemnts for the 44 to be returned and a Parker Hale 30-06 to be supplied and a few boxes of Norma heavy game ammo, with a Pecar 4x sight. Result- as you can imagine - happy faces. The rifle was completely degreased and lubed with graphite (oil freezes up there) I never heard any more - but I suspect that they survived!
     
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  17. Laurie

    Laurie

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    NZ_Fclass, your post reminded me of three things. On the less serious side, I remember a gun mag review of a Charter Arms snubby 44 Mag revolver that described it as the ultimate home defence gun - you didn't need to hit the breaking & entering felon - in fact were unlikely to do so - but the blast and noise indoors were such that by the time homeowner and criminal got their senses back together, the police would have arrived to take charge! :)

    On the Arctic expedition training, my good friend Vince Bottomley used to host an occasional training day at Diggle Ranges for some group of UK scientists visits to the region using a CZ 375 H&H Magnum they took with them for polar bear defence. Every one had to fire a few shots and demonstrate familiarity with the rifle so that there was a reasonable chance of it going bang OK at a critical point should an aggressive bear turn up.

    Finally, the need for the familiarization showed up tragically in 2012 with a British school expedition to Svalbard Island in Norway where a 17 boy was killed by a bear that entered their camp during the night.

    https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2014/jul/18/horatio-chapple-death-polar-bear-attack

    The main failing was an inefficient perimeter defence that let the bear in without waking anybody, but it wasn't helped by the party having a 30-06 rifle for last-ditch defence that the user couldn't get to fire. This was a military type Mauser and the inadequately trained user failed to swing the safety through 180-degrees to the fire position but stopped half way with the safety flag lever pointing upwards which allows the action to be cycled but blocks the striker. I imagine this was one of the ex Wehrmacht K98s that remained in Norway when the former occupation force Germans left (on foot!) in May or June 1945 to return to their own country. The Norwegians subsequently refurbished and rebarreled these 7.92 K98k rifles to 30-06 also cutting a notch in the receiver ring for clip loading. I've seen a few surplus examples in the UK - nice rifles. I do know that after they became surplus they also went to Norway's official guides who have to accompany visitors to beaches etc in 'bear territory'. The moral of the story is that calibre, stopping power etc aside, if you're insufficiently trained or familiar with whatever you're packing and can't use it in a timely manner (or even at all as here) then it's just a waste of space other than as a club!
     
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  18. Larryh128

    Larryh128

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    The 1911 guys all make fun of Glocks BUT the majority of law enforcement carry them for a reason. Pull the trigger & they go bang as many times as the trigger is depressed until the slide locks open. Totally reliable. Are they bullseye pistols? No, but they were never intended to be. Minute of human or bear is all that's necessary and no hammer, double external safety to fool with. A 10mm Glock is pretty good bear medicine.
     
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  19. 284winner

    284winner Gold $$ Contributor

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    Yes they can be minute of angle pistols. My Glock 20, 22 and 30 all shoot about an inch at 15 yards. The 22 and 30 shot that way from the factory. I had to figure out the G20 but once I found the right ammo, it's deadly accurate. 6" barrel puts a full mag (20) of 220 grain Underwood hardcasts inside of 3" at 20 yards. Can't ask for more than that.
     
  20. Laurie

    Laurie

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    Glocks are the usual issue to armed police in the UK too. 9mmP I should think.
     

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