Yet another shoulder bump question

[DLT]

You might try going by color change in a darkened room and not by time. Room needs to be really dark. Light the torch and sit for 5 minutes or so and let your eyes adjust. You should be able to see well enough to anneal. At least this is my method and it's been working well for me.

I do anneal in a dark room. And, I do watch for color change and flame change. Its around 5 secs worth. In a lighted room you can’t see anything. Been there done that one time won’t do it again

 

[LHSmith]

What are the details on this rifle and what is the intended purpose? Striving for perfection in handloads is a good thing as long as the equipment can produce results that make the extra effort worthwhile. For competion I prefer to size to the point where the bolt falls freely. Some rifles respond differently to different headspace clearances, some shoot better with clearance, some are better when headspace is tight.

 

[Charlie-NY]

I recently had the bolt bushed on my 30Nosler. I was wondering if the headspace would be slightly increased. I decided to measure the CBTO of my Nosler cases that were already resized in Redding Type S FL bushing dies. I intended to compare this measurement to the soon-to-be fired cases to see if I needed to readjust the FL die. What I learned was that my sized cases varied by .003". I was totally surprised. FWIW - I run all of my cases into the FL die twice, assuming that it promotes uniformity.

All of my cases are from the same lot and kept in batches to indicate the number of times fired. None were annealed. I use a 40 year old Rockchucker press and Imperial wax which is applied to body, shoulders and necks.

I hope I can get this variance reduced in the future and now I'm wondering about all of my other cartridges. Hmmmmmmmmm

 

[K22]

With this die all cases feel fine and pretty smooth coming over the expander ball. I was trying another route to setup the sizing die, I’m pretty sure I never measured the datum line of my fired cases I was carefully screwing the die in little by little each sizing to get the striped bolt to fall with no resistance. I do know that using the hornady headspace tools the bolt would close with very little resistance bumped to 1.450. Zero resistance at 1.449 that I could feel. The shims your talking about, are they just for fast adjustment or could they get the shell holder to contact the die. I have around .010 gap between my shell holder and die currently

Measuring the fire case datum line give you a base line to know exactly how much your shoulder is being bumped. Yes, the rifle chamber is the ultimate gauge but, by measuring fired case datum line you can determine just how much your case is being size. The entire idea is to base the amount of sizing on the fired case datum line (headspace).

Often "zero bump" to .001" bump will produce good functionality. When you full size, you are also sizing the radial dimension of the case which is often enough.

Yes, if you set up your die correctly, the application of all shims will result in the shell holder touching the die. If you decide to go that route, I can PM you my procedure for die setup with Skip Shims. It makes adjusting the sizing so much easier. I never had a situation where the die didn't at least make full contact with the shell holder to achieve proper sizing. Most cases. some cam over was required to achieve proper sizing.

The "gap" between the shell holder and the die can be a problem if the die is not at least touching the shoulder of the case. The case can be extruded (lengthened).

 

[K22]

See I’m lost. If you set your die to touch the shell holder and you need more bump if you add a shim under the lock ring isn’t that decreasing your bump or am I looking at it backwards ?

Not if you set up the die properly to use Skip Shims. It's really quite simple. The shims allow you to increase sizing by selecting a smaller shim. I've been using them for many years, and they work flawlessly but you have to set up the FL die properly to use them.

I can PM you my procedure if you decide to go that route.

 

[JMayo]

I can varry with my calipers up to a thou .... Also pull back if lube isn't right will stretch them half a thou +-

I found out a long time ago acceptance & calm the f down goes a long ways !

 

[6.5 forever]

I forgot to mention in my post that I had a lot of Remington cases that had a wide range of case head space. I don't know if this was due to some metallurgical or forming issue.

Some required shoulder set back after only one firing, and others had to fully fired formed which took several firings to achieve. I had to segregate those cases and just size with zero set back until the case were fully fire formed.

I would think any case difference will cause inconsistency.

 

[K22]

I would think any case difference will cause inconsistency.

Sure, but this lot for some reason had more variance than any virgin cases I have ever seen. Also, the end of the necks on several was not level and had to be trimmed to even them out.

Since then, I've avoided Remington cases whenever possible which is easy these days because I haven't seen them on the shelf for years.

 

[DLT]

What are the details on this rifle and what is the intended purpose? Striving for perfection in handloads is a good thing as long as the equipment can produce results that make the extra effort worthwhile. For competion I prefer to size to the point where the bolt falls freely. Some rifles respond differently to different headspace clearances, some shoot better with clearance, some are better when headspace is tight.

It’s just a rebarreled model 12 in 223 laminate stock. 4x20x50 sightron stac. No competition, just chasing tiny groups and varmints and stretch out to 600 on steel on occasion

 

[DLT]

Not if you set up the die properly to use Skip Shims. It's really quite simple. The shims allow you to increase sizing by selecting a smaller shim. I've been using them for many years, and they work flawlessly but you have to set up the FL die properly to use them.

I can PM you my procedure if you decide to go that route.

Please do. For that money it sure won’t hurt,

 

[Dusty Stevens]

Are you sizing before or after annealing? I may have missed it in these 4 pages

 

[DLT]

Are you sizing before or after annealing? I may have missed it in these 4 pages

I size after annealing
Today I had my first ever come apart. 4th firing. I can see the line forming on many of my cases. I figure they are all toast. I have had very few primers blow out in my life but never a case like this

 

[Kracken McGraw]

I size after annealing View attachment 1422951
Today I had my first ever come apart. 4th firing. I can see the line forming on many of my cases. I figure they are all toast. I have had very few primers blow out in my life but never a case like this

I think I would quit annealing the Starline brass since your getting case separation that far up the case.

 

[DLT]

I think I would quit annealing the Starline brass since your getting case separation that far up the case.

Is that what could have caused it ? I know my anneal line is further down the case than most I see

 

[Kracken McGraw]

Is that what could have caused it ? I know my anneal line is further down the case than most I see

Before the internet I used to get case separation on a model 788 22-250 because of over sizing. Those separations were a half inch above the case rim.

 

[DLT]

Before the internet I used to get case separation on a model 788 22-250 because of over sizing. Those separations were a half inch above the case rim.

Yea I’m definitely not over sizing. I try all I can to shoot for .002 bump

 

[Mark611]

After reading this thread I decided to check my shoulder bump for my custom 308win rig, the brass {LAPUA} was shot the 1st time thru a factory rifle, resized and fired thru my new set up, I went back to check my bump and it was 3k bump under fired, I have very good results with this sizing, so I thought? never checked it till today, I noticed that the bump Very's from case to case, I was shocked! I started off with a clean die, I use a lanolin mix for lube, I cleaned the die about every 10 cases, and still got a +- 1k on the bump, using a Redding body die and a RCBS shell holder, This thread has opened up a new can of worms for me, Now my LAPUA brass is from 2 different lots, 300being the same 200 different, and their mixed! by brass weight, I just wonder if the rims thickness is causing the issue? What say you!

 

[LHSmith]

After reading this thread I decided to check my shoulder bump for my custom 308win rig, the brass {LAPUA} was shot the 1st time thru a factory rifle, resized and fired thru my new set up, I went back to check my bump and it was 3k bump under fired, I have very good results with this sizing, so I thought? never checked it till today, I noticed that the bump Very's from case to case, I was shocked! I started off with a clean die, I use a lanolin mix for lube, I cleaned the die about every 10 cases, and still got a +- 1k on the bump, using a Redding body die and a RCBS shell holder, This thread has opened up a new can of worms for me, Now my LAPUA brass is from 2 different lots, 300being the same 200 different, and their mixed! by brass weight, I just wonder if the rims thickness is causing the issue? What say you!

How the bolt reacts to my chambered brass trumps caliper readings for me. Also I will not use brass fired from another rifle- it always leads to problems for me. The first firing is critical to how the brass behaves in future sizing attempts.

 

[LHSmith]

I size after annealing View attachment 1422951
Today I had my first ever come apart. 4th firing. I can see the line forming on many of my cases. I figure they are all toast. I have had very few primers blow out in my life but never a case like this

Incipient Case-Head Separation — How to Detect the Problem « Daily Bulletin

We are re-publishing this article at the request of Forum members who found the information very valuable. If you haven’t read this Safety Tip before, take a moment to learn how you can inspect your fired brass to determine if there may be a potential for case separation. A case separation can...

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[LHSmith]

DLT- You just rebarrelled so the new chamber may be fatter than your old and the die may now be mismatched to your new chamber. How many loadings did you get from the old barrel?