Ye' Ol' Carbon Ring

[sigma2chi]

I don't have a bore scope but I am still curious as to the different methods to identify if you have a carbon ring build up just in front of the cartridge neck area of the chamber and how best to clean it. Read all I could from searches but still feel like there's more insight out there.

 

[22BRGUY]

I think on the bottles of JB borepast and Iosso there are directions on exactly how to go about removing a carbon ring. I wasn't sure if I had one going or not but decided to buy some JB and use it because it was a lot less expensive than buying a borescope. JMHO

 

[madderg]

http://www.harborfreight.com/digital-inspection-camera-67979.html

$90.00 and it will work like a charm!!

 

[kolar55]

Just what does the carbon ring look like? Is it brown or black or ? I use Sea foam for cleaning the carbon and powder fouling and so far it seems to a very good job of it. I also use JB every 50 to 100 rounds. I don't see anything unusual with my innovative technologies borescope but I'm not sure what it looks like.

 

[FergusBailey]

Just what does the carbon ring look like? Is it brown or black or ? I use Sea foam for cleaning the carbon and powder fouling and so far it seems to a very good job of it. I also use JB every 50 to 100 rounds. I don't see anything unusual with my innovative technologies borescope but I'm not sure what it looks like.

The carbon ring is just carbon fouling (albeit in a specific area). It is a deposit of fouling that builds up from the case mouth to the beginning of the lands in a rifle barrel. It is black, just like any other carbon fouling.

If you are just brushing and patching the bore you will not: a) see anything you can specifically identify as the carbon ring (because carbon fouling all looks the same when it comes out of the bore; but more importantly b) a standard bore cleaning regimen will not remove the carbon ring.

You cant eliminate the carbon ring any more than you can eliminate any other fouling in a barrel. However keeping the carbon ring in check is not that hard. You just need to make sure you work your brush in the throat area of the barrel as part of your cleaning process. At least that is my experience with a range of different match barrels when viewed through my borescope as part of the barrel cleaning process.

 

[jrbet83]

http://www.harborfreight.com/digital-inspection-camera-67979.html

$90.00 and it will work like a charm!!

How would this work? If I'm reading the ad correct it has a 16mm camera head (.63"). It wouldn't fit in the chamber of the majority of cartridges. I doubt you could really identify a carbon ring from the beginning of the tenon.

 

[xpilot]

[/quote]

How would this work? If I'm reading the ad correct it has a 16mm camera head (.63"). It wouldn't fit in the chamber of the majority of cartridges. I doubt you could really identify a carbon ring from the beginning of the tenon.
[/quote]

Same question.............

 

[gaboon]

http://www.harborfreight.com/digital-inspection-camera-67979.html

$90.00 and it will work like a charm!!

How would this work? If I'm reading the ad correct it has a 16mm camera head (.63"). It wouldn't fit in the chamber of the majority of cartridges. I doubt you could really identify a carbon ring from the beginning of the tenon.

I think they make a small head for it. It is listed in product manual. But I can not find the small head. There is one that plugs into your computer. IMO nothing beats the Hawkeye Scope.

I found that if keep brass no too short it keeps the carbon ring in check.

 

[dogdude]

http://www.harborfreight.com/digital-inspection-camera-67979.html

$90.00 and it will work like a charm!!

How would this work? If I'm reading the ad correct it has a 16mm camera head (.63"). It wouldn't fit in the chamber of the majority of cartridges. I doubt you could really identify a carbon ring from the beginning of the tenon.

I think they make a small head for it. It is listed in product manual. But I can not find the small head. There is one that plugs into your computer. IMO nothing beats the Hawkeye Scope.

I found that if keep brass no too short it keeps the carbon ring in check.

+1

 

[Nomad47]

I have the Harbor Freight inspection camera and the smaller head. The head is approximately .234" as it is VERY snug in the bore of a 6mm barrel (remember lands are either .236" or .237".
It has a light and you can view straight ahead or attach the included mirror to view at a 90 degree angle.
Since the case neck diameters of my 6mm's are .275" and the throat is .2435", the head fits easily in those areas.
However, I am in NO way advocating this over a borescope.

 

[sigma2chi]

Anyone tried the empty brass method where you take a case that is a little long and needs trimming and bell out the mouth a bit and use it to scrape the ring off?

 

[lpreddick]

just a little clarification...the ring is ENTIRELY in the chamber, not from the "case mouth to the beginning of the lands". working a brush "in the throat area" doesn't do it either. if you can look at tony boyer's book, he has a diagram of the chamber and the ring. he also shows his method of using an undersized bronze brush and spins it in the last few mm of the chamber. the length of the ring can be determined by measuring the chamber length (sinclair's chamber length gauges) then subtract the length of the case. my shortest is .010 and longest is .024. the longer ring takes longer to remove. if done after each session, the effort is less.

 

[chuckbuster243]

http://www.harborfreight.com/digital-inspection-camera-67979.html

$90.00 and it will work like a charm!!

How big is the shaft? Will it fit down the bore? Or just in the chamber? Thanks, Matt

 

[CatShooter]

just a little clarification...the ring is ENTIRELY in the chamber, not from the "case mouth to the beginning of the lands". working a brush "in the throat area" doesn't do it either. if you can look at tony boyer's book, he has a diagram of the chamber and the ring. he also shows his method of using an undersized bronze brush and spins it in the last few mm of the chamber. the length of the ring can be determined by measuring the chamber length (sinclair's chamber length gauges) then subtract the length of the case. my shortest is .010 and longest is .024. the longer ring takes longer to remove. if done after each session, the effort is less.

I spin an over-sized bronze brush in the neck with a 1/4" drill and a BRASS rod - it gets all the ash out - I don't get ash forming in my whole chamber - just the neck.

If you are getting ash forming in your whole chamber, you are doing something real wrong with your loads.

 

[CatShooter]

Re: If you want to see a bore scope video

If you want to see a bore scope video here's a link to my skydrive. It has 4 of them showing copper fowling.

https://onedrive.live.com/redir?resid=AE233EBE966794BF!512&authkey=!ADUm0C27yX6oAx0&ithint=folder%2c.AVI

The last one is a bit better than the others because I finally discovered the HD setting. However, none are as good as what the display shows. I think it has to do with the codec they use to create the video.

No carbon ring is visible because I spray brake cleaner down the throat of the barrel, after my last shot, while its still warm.

I see an ash ring in video #2 at 0.07secs - video #3 at 0:01secs, and video #4 at 0:01secs. Walk it through at one frame at a time and you will see it.

 

[LCazador]

just a little clarification...the ring is ENTIRELY in the chamber, not from the "case mouth to the beginning of the lands". working a brush "in the throat area" doesn't do it either. if you can look at tony boyer's book, he has a diagram of the chamber and the ring. he also shows his method of using an undersized bronze brush and spins it in the last few mm of the chamber. the length of the ring can be determined by measuring the chamber length (sinclair's chamber length gauges) then subtract the length of the case. my shortest is .010 and longest is .024. the longer ring takes longer to remove. if done after each session, the effort is less.

I believe it's an "oversize brush" not an undersized brush he's using. You're cleaning the chamber area just ahead of the end of the case neck. It's that little space between the end of the case neck and where the chamber ends. So the size of the brush will be just over the size of your loaded diameter. In other words, say your loaded diameter is .262", spin a .264" brush to remove the ring. I have a bore scope, and if you clean this area after each shooting, 30-40 rounds, you will not have any trouble removing the carbon ring with about 20-30 hand spins of your cleaning rod using Iosso. I've been using Iosso for about 30 years and doing it this way. I don't believe there's any way to see the ring without a magnifying 90 degree rig like the Hawkeye.

 

[sigma2chi]

No body has any experience with the empty case neck belled out to manually remove the ring?

 

[CatShooter]

No body has any experience with the empty case neck belled out to manually remove the ring?

The problem with that is two problems. The ash ring forms in front of the case, in the small space between the end of the case and the end of the chamber... so by definition, the case is not long enough to reach the ring.

The second problem is that since the ash is formed up against a tiny wall at the begining of the throat, there is no place to push the ash - so you are stuck (so to speak).

 

[lpreddick]

if you have an aversion to twisting a bronze brush (yes, slightly OVERSIZED) hoppes sell a very stiff nylon type brush call "tenex". they are reddish and are mistaked for bronze. putting a small dab of jb/kroil on the tip one can feel the brush as it enters the neck portion of the chamber. b&d spin to get rid of an established ring then hand twist to remove fresh rings. a squirt of your favorite solvent at the end of shooting while the barrel is warm may hasten the rings removal.

 

[fdshuster]

What I see with my Hawkeye is not a carbon ring buildup where the case mouths are located, but rather a burn ring where the surface of the metal was subjected to the intense heat of the burning powder. It has no thickness to it, since it's on the surface only.

Even if turning a bronze brush with IOSSO or JB, attached to a non-rotating pistol cleaning rod, the burn ring will remain. I see it as a discoloration of the barrel steel, and no longer attempt to remove it. Since I keep my case mouths trimmed to within .005" of the end of the chamber (6ppc's and 6BR's only) and within .010" with all other cartridges that have a tendancy to stretch more, these burn marks are minimal and I ignore them. Just what I've been seeing for many years now.