Would a silencer on a benchrest rifle offer any accuracy benefit ?
- Thread starter Gee
- Start date
I think the Bloop Tube is solely intended to increase the sight radius although anything hung on the end of the barrel is sure to affect the turbulence of the muzzle blast.
The silencer, though, would be a good test and they are probably not allowed by current BR rulebooks for IBS and NBRSA short-range. It would sure be interesting to see if the silencer's effect on the muzzle blast and its effect on the early stability of the bullet is noticeable on the target. I also think silencers might be an option at some shooting ranges that are near populated areas. We have events with 15 to 30 shooters, a course of fire of 25 shots for score and any number of sighters per shooter, plus a warm-up round adding another 5 to 20 rounds per shooter. So, in the course of a day's shooting from 9 a.m. to early afternoon, the neighbors are hearing 60-70 rounds per shooter for around 1,200 to 2,000 rounds per event. That's a lot of "bangs" in a short time period. Possibly, a good silencer design could be incorporated into a tuner. Always lots of possibilities.
The silencer, though, would be a good test and they are probably not allowed by current BR rulebooks for IBS and NBRSA short-range. It would sure be interesting to see if the silencer's effect on the muzzle blast and its effect on the early stability of the bullet is noticeable on the target. I also think silencers might be an option at some shooting ranges that are near populated areas. We have events with 15 to 30 shooters, a course of fire of 25 shots for score and any number of sighters per shooter, plus a warm-up round adding another 5 to 20 rounds per shooter. So, in the course of a day's shooting from 9 a.m. to early afternoon, the neighbors are hearing 60-70 rounds per shooter for around 1,200 to 2,000 rounds per event. That's a lot of "bangs" in a short time period. Possibly, a good silencer design could be incorporated into a tuner. Always lots of possibilities.
SILENCER?read moderator.and as others have stated you will be better off without i use moderators on all my rifles as here in the uk we can have them on firearms,if i take them off ,to shoot bench rest or f-class the accuracy is noticable,only thing to do is re zero the scope which is no big deal.
Hi,
On most of my rifles with silencers I notice that groups are generally tighter with than with out the silencer.
I develop my loads so as to get the best group with the silencer, also.
My rifles are hunting/varmint rifles with actions and barrels generally less rigid than a real BR rig. The silencer probably act as a tuner and helps to reduce the muzzle vibrations patterns at the muzzle.
The best accuracy I can get is 1/4 of an inch with one of my rifles with a silencer, probably not better without. When a real BR rig should be producing a least that at early loads developments stages in good weather conditions.
So there is only one answer: try it. But I have not got the finances to be part of the experience.
For the DIY guys of the forum, having a kind of a weight in the shape of a ring that could fit around the suppressor to tune the vibrations would be a good idea.
Or a similar ring that could be adjusted around the barrel area between the tip of the forehand and the silencer would be another solution.
ND
On most of my rifles with silencers I notice that groups are generally tighter with than with out the silencer.
I develop my loads so as to get the best group with the silencer, also.
My rifles are hunting/varmint rifles with actions and barrels generally less rigid than a real BR rig. The silencer probably act as a tuner and helps to reduce the muzzle vibrations patterns at the muzzle.
The best accuracy I can get is 1/4 of an inch with one of my rifles with a silencer, probably not better without. When a real BR rig should be producing a least that at early loads developments stages in good weather conditions.
So there is only one answer: try it. But I have not got the finances to be part of the experience.
For the DIY guys of the forum, having a kind of a weight in the shape of a ring that could fit around the suppressor to tune the vibrations would be a good idea.
Or a similar ring that could be adjusted around the barrel area between the tip of the forehand and the silencer would be another solution.
ND
kwtolman
Silver $$ Contributor
Let me share my experience. I shoot a Rem 700 with a Pac Nor barrel in .308. I like to shoot extreme ranges (800-1000 yds.). This rifle has always been capable of 1/2moa or better at about any range. I decided to purchase a suppressor because I knew that it would reduce recoil and therefore allow me to stay on target and see my hits down range thus negating the need for a spotter. After getting the suppressor, I had a local gunsmith thread the barrel. Immediately thereafter, my accuracy deteriorated...not just a little but in a big way - 1 1/4" to 1 1/2" groups at 100yds. There was nothing I could do to rectify the problem. I called the suppressor manufacturer and described my problem. They suspected that the threads on the barrel had been cut out of center with the centerline of the bore and/or that the crown had been damaged. I sent the barreled action and the suppressor to them. They cut, threaded and re-crowned the barrel and returned it to me. The rifle will now shoot 1/2moa but I have not been able to shoot the consistent sub 1/2moa groups that the gun was once capable of. For me, the jury is still out. The rifle is definitely more pleasant to shoot suppressed, but I think I may have sacrificed a little accuracy as a tradeoff for the comfort.
KW, I am most unknowledgeable about how it all works, but I'm guessing the suppressor has changed the "vibration characteristics" of your barrel, added to effective length of the barrel, and therefore requires a new load to work to its best capability.
My concept would be to have a suppressor that has a self-contained barrel tuner on it.
I have very limited experience fooling with a Browning BOSS on a friend's .22-250, but enough to see that they do work. I think a suppressor built in combo with a BOSS-type tuner would be interesting to wring out.
My concept would be to have a suppressor that has a self-contained barrel tuner on it.
I have very limited experience fooling with a Browning BOSS on a friend's .22-250, but enough to see that they do work. I think a suppressor built in combo with a BOSS-type tuner would be interesting to wring out.
Hi,
Barrels that float inside a full length floating integral suppressor:-
Of course, we are forgetting about the other types of suppressor. One, being the type that does not screw onto the end of the barrel, instead screwing onto either the action, or onto a thread upon the barrel near to the chamber. Usually called an 'Integral Suppressor' it has the benefit of floating, i.e not being in contact with the barrel. A full length integral suppressor can be a bit heavy, and may sometimes see a shorter and or thinner barrel used, though this does not have to be the case. An integral suppressor can offer a lot of volume and be very quiet. However as the floating barrel and floating suppressor tube heat up, I do wonder if their positons relative to each other might vary, with a negative effect on accuracy or POI ?
There are further variations, such as the full length integral suppressor that threads on simultaneously both to the muzzle and at or near to the barrel chamber.
Another type (I like this !) is to have the barrel greatly held in tension upon a substantial full length integral suppressor tube; similar to the tensioned barrel and shroud of a Dan Wesson revolver. This would be an interesting tensioned rifle barrel / shroud combination, regardless of whether it incorporated a suppressor.
Gee
Barrels that float inside a full length floating integral suppressor:-
Of course, we are forgetting about the other types of suppressor. One, being the type that does not screw onto the end of the barrel, instead screwing onto either the action, or onto a thread upon the barrel near to the chamber. Usually called an 'Integral Suppressor' it has the benefit of floating, i.e not being in contact with the barrel. A full length integral suppressor can be a bit heavy, and may sometimes see a shorter and or thinner barrel used, though this does not have to be the case. An integral suppressor can offer a lot of volume and be very quiet. However as the floating barrel and floating suppressor tube heat up, I do wonder if their positons relative to each other might vary, with a negative effect on accuracy or POI ?
There are further variations, such as the full length integral suppressor that threads on simultaneously both to the muzzle and at or near to the barrel chamber.
Another type (I like this !) is to have the barrel greatly held in tension upon a substantial full length integral suppressor tube; similar to the tensioned barrel and shroud of a Dan Wesson revolver. This would be an interesting tensioned rifle barrel / shroud combination, regardless of whether it incorporated a suppressor.
Gee
Hi, yes I believe that people shoot better with sound mods, at least I did and a few friends found they did also, However whilst shooting at 1000yds last year I forgot to check the tightness of the sound mod as I used to do every two rounds fired, the result was 5 v bulls and a miss, I checked the sound mod and found it had worked loose just a fraction, this was enough for the bullet to hit the baffles, end of sound mod
With all the talk of tensioned barrels I wondered when someone would mention the dan wesson revolver, I had one with 4 barrels, interesting and accurate pistol. dooley (uk)
With all the talk of tensioned barrels I wondered when someone would mention the dan wesson revolver, I had one with 4 barrels, interesting and accurate pistol. dooley (uk)
Shynloco
You can lead a horse to water, but ........
Gee said:
After reading all the responses, it seems to me there is confusion here about the question. First off "silencers" are a NO NO on any weapons in most states I know of and require a license which ATF won't likely issue. What the question might have been asking was are " Muzzle Breaks or Suppressors" useful or benefit accuracy? IMHO, I've never seen it happen, although they will save your shoulder when shooting a 300 Win Mag or bigger and your can adjust your loads as was suggested by one of the posts and give it a try and see if it works on your particular rifle.
As to the "Bloop Tubes" which is similar to the use of a "Barrel Tuner", on a Centerfire rifle there is NO advantage (and NO even on a 6mmbr) , but on a Rimfire there is an advantage to using a tuner because rimfire rifles (even the top quality brands) are so very sensitive to rimfire ammos, even so much that changing lot numbers of rimfire ammo can throw off your accuracy and you might likely find your self having to re-tune your barrel by adjusting the tuner settings.
Just my thoughts.
1. More States allow Suppressors than ones that don't!
2. There is NO License required to own a Suppressor anywhere in these United States, simply pay a one time only 200 dollar TAX, submit the required paperwork with 2 passport photos, FBI finger print card and wait for the Tax Stamp to be returned to the dealer you bought the Suppressor from, then pick it up!
3. The ATF has to issue the Tax Stamp if you are legally able to own the firearm(Suppressors, Machine Guns, Short Barrel Rifles)!
I don't know where the misconception comes from that a license is required to own certain firearms, its just another Tax and background check that digs deeper than the NICS check, a license implies that it is a privilege, the 2nd amendment clearly says its a Right to own firearms, if you live in a Commy state like CA, MA, NY, NJ move to a free State.
2. There is NO License required to own a Suppressor anywhere in these United States, simply pay a one time only 200 dollar TAX, submit the required paperwork with 2 passport photos, FBI finger print card and wait for the Tax Stamp to be returned to the dealer you bought the Suppressor from, then pick it up!
3. The ATF has to issue the Tax Stamp if you are legally able to own the firearm(Suppressors, Machine Guns, Short Barrel Rifles)!
I don't know where the misconception comes from that a license is required to own certain firearms, its just another Tax and background check that digs deeper than the NICS check, a license implies that it is a privilege, the 2nd amendment clearly says its a Right to own firearms, if you live in a Commy state like CA, MA, NY, NJ move to a free State.
Gee said:
I am not sure. I only ever develop my loads and shoot my rifles using a moderator. Certainly some moderators give better results than others. I favour the stick on the end style of moderator as per the link below. I had a T8 over the barrel moderator, but didn't like it and traded it in. With the AU-S5 and factory ammo, on the same rifle, the group size halved.
http://www.thestalkingdirectory.co.uk/gallery/member-galleries/p2948-remington-700-sa-in-260-rem.html
Regards JCS
kwtolman said:
First let me tell you my background. Since this is my first post at the forum hopefully I'm not violating some forum rules. Please also excuse my grammar since english is actually my third language.
On of my companies manufactures moderators and we mount and sell quite a good number every year. Last 12 months we have performed threading of approx 1200 rilfes for our own or other manufacturers models. So farI do not hink we have had one single case of accuracy getting worse after having put one on
A suppressor is little more than an exhaust system to the muzzle of your gun. Since in cools and slows down the propellant gasses the muzzle blast and therefore the "jet" like effect of the powder gasses is eliminated and you can have a decrease in recoil in the 35-50% area. The added weight of 12-14oz will also give you an additional 5-8% decrease in recoil from the added weight.
Like in GB most new rifles here in Norway is fitted with a moderator. And with added volume prices decrease. In our domestic market most mods are in the 250-400$ range fitted.
I have three Quicksilver Titanium suppressors that are threaded on. I use these extensively in the club 500 yard F-class matches. I can tell you that I have seen no accuracy difference and it is certainly a more pleasant shooting experience with reduced recoil and greatly reduced noise. Accuracy is about consistency. So, logic would dictate that a properly threaded suppressor that remains securely attached to a barrel should not impact consistency/accuracy. Will you need to work up a new load: maybe. Will your zero change: maybe. Will accuracy be impacted: not with a good suppressor that has been properly threaded. My quicksilver supressors do not change the zero much if any: extra plus.
D-mon said:
Agree with this and have several points to make. Not all moderators are equal, and they need to be well fitted. I have gone from T8, to AU-S5 and am now on AU-SL5 and a Jet-Z (see my profile for the mods in situ). I develop my loads moderator on and I wouldn't dream of shooting my rifles moderator off. I find it really odd now to shoot or watch a rifle be shot without a moderator. I shoot better with the moderator on although it is a bit of comparing apples and oranges. When shooting deer, the moderators a great help. Finally, never leave the moderator on your rifle as your barrel will corrode from all the crap retained in the moderator.
Regards JCS
I can't say that I've seen a lot of what the long range guys are doing that's new lately, but I have never seen a suppressor on a short range BR rifle, nor seen anything like that in the equipment lists on the match results pages.
Like one of the previous posters, I have never heard or seen any positive results (in the long run) that included hanging something from the muzzle of a well tuned centerfire BR rifle.
There was a slight ripple that reached the newsletters and such in the shorty BR pond a few years back when a very few folks showed up at matches with tuners or bloop tubes on their rifles. One or two did quite well using them. Later they did as well or better without them and that ripple did not become a splash..........
Whether the first bloop tube was developed for barrel tuning or for sight radius extension, the fact remains that for BR purposes, at least as practiced in NBRSA and IBS matches as well as other sanctioning agencies, the barrel tuning is the only use for it, as these matches are shot using telescopic sights. Since the original post asked about BR use I would think that fact would be of more use than not to the poster......
Like one of the previous posters, I have never heard or seen any positive results (in the long run) that included hanging something from the muzzle of a well tuned centerfire BR rifle.
There was a slight ripple that reached the newsletters and such in the shorty BR pond a few years back when a very few folks showed up at matches with tuners or bloop tubes on their rifles. One or two did quite well using them. Later they did as well or better without them and that ripple did not become a splash..........
Whether the first bloop tube was developed for barrel tuning or for sight radius extension, the fact remains that for BR purposes, at least as practiced in NBRSA and IBS matches as well as other sanctioning agencies, the barrel tuning is the only use for it, as these matches are shot using telescopic sights. Since the original post asked about BR use I would think that fact would be of more use than not to the poster......
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