WLR bad lot number

[cosmic creepers]

Hi,

I've recently been in contact with some of you, and Winchester about a bad lot of primers.
DLL824G
It's looking like they are going to replace, and hopefully repair my bolt face. Just wanted to share. Taylor from winchester has been most helpful so far.

Shooting 190gr SMK @2.850" over 41.0 grs Reloder15 in an m118 chamber about .040" off the lands

Thanks for those of you who indicated this may have been manufacturers problem. Much appreciated

Big Phil.

The Constitution is my Bible.

 

[quest450]

Thanks for the heads up, I recently picked up couple bricks but my lot # is different
I got VBL876G lot

 

[kyotekiller25]

I just sent them 2 bricks back myself last week! Mine were lot # GGLxxxx. Bought several bricks 5+ years ago and this is the only cartridge I started having issues with them in. Used them in a 240 WBY and 280 Rem with no problems.

I posted my results on Snipers hide and a few guys automatically said my WLR primers were definitely the issue.

Blew 1 primer out completely and had severe gas leaks in 4 others in a brand new 6 creed build, under book max loads at that! 41g H4350 with a 108g ELDM. Not a happy camper. Waiting for them to decide what they're gonna do next...Kinda sucks because LR primers are nowhere to be found these days, and I only have a couple hundred each of Fed 210s and CCI 200s left...

No damage to my boltface thank god, as I already took it to my smith and he looked it over. I mean there's a little bit of gas marks on the boltface, but the firing pin is good, still goes bang, and still shoots 1/3 MOA. Im not gonna worry about it anyway. It's kinda weird though because I only had 5 of the 50 act up. The other 45 cases/primers look perfectly fine. No ejector mark, no sticky bolt lift, etc.

 

[jxb]

Glad you posted something, I was thinking these were one-off. Luckily mine was on a falling block, but now I'm thinking I best disassemble and inspect the face for any damage. I was doing some final powder ladder testing 6GT, 103vtac, Varget these are 33.9 and 34.0 three shot group of each, one from each set blew but didn't even impact my group or stats. I haven't hit pressure until well into the 35.x so knew something was off with these. I'm about 90 into first box and only these two blew. I created a support case with Winchester via their web form just today after seeing this thread.

Mine are some Win 41 primers that I had an issue with these two last outing. pics attached. I have two bricks of these. Not good.

 

[Cfshooter]

I have plenty of blown out Win primers, won’t use them anymore if they gave me them. And yep, I have been through their CS process, they gave me a free hat and said it was my brass at fault.

 

[jxb]

I have plenty of blown out Win primers, won’t use them anymore if they gave me them. And yep, I have been through their CS process, they gave me a free hat and said it was my brass at fault.

I haven't used Win primers since the 90's where we shot many thousands of them with hot loads varminting, no issues back then. I only picked these up cause this rig seems to hammer primers pretty hard even well below pressure so I thought 41's are supposed to be thicker I'll try some of those. I'll stick with CCI and Federal thanks.

 

[MrK.]

I had the same issue back in 2019. The gas was burning through the primer cup and etching my bolt face. There was a list of suspected bad lots and none of the lots I had left in sleeves matched. I contacted them a couple times about it, once by phone, once by email but they never responded. I wrote it off as live and learn. I have three guns affected, most notably is this REM 700 in 25-06 but also my pre-64 Model 70 and a Ruger 77.

 

[Cfshooter]

I had the same issue back in 2019. The gas was burning through the primer cup and etching my bolt face. There was a list of suspected bad lots and none of the lots I had left in sleeves matched. I contacted them a couple times about it, once by phone, once by email but they never responded. I wrote it off as live and learn. I have three guns affected, most notably is this REM 700 in 25-06 but also my pre-64 Model 70 and a Ruger 77.
View attachment 1540627

View attachment 1540624View attachment 1540625

It really pissed me off when it did that to a freshly bushed bolt. Never again.

 

[cosmic creepers]

Thanks for the heads up, I recently picked up couple bricks but my lot # is different
I got VBL876G lot

Well I recommend keeping an eye on it and get ahold of them if you have any issues.
I thought it was a brass issue until I bought a lot of starline brass and even still with my really light loads they were popping at the corners.

So an old timer told me it was an issue with my primers and that it would permanently damage my bolt face to inoperable eventually.

Keep an eye on it and stop using them if you split one

 

[Cfshooter]

Well I recommend keeping an eye on it and get ahold of them if you have any issues.
I thought it was a brass issue until I bought a lot of starline brass and even still with my really light loads they were popping at the corners.

So an old timer told me it was an issue with my primers and that it would permanently damage my bolt face to inoperable eventually.

Keep an eye on it and stop using them if you split one

Yep, wasn’t my brass as they said either. I had it happen in LC, new Starline, and Norma.

 

[boltfluter]

I just sent them 2 bricks back myself last week! Mine were lot # GGLxxxx. Bought several bricks 5+ years ago and this is the only cartridge I started having issues with them in. Used them in a 240 WBY and 280 Rem with no problems.

I posted my results on Snipers hide and a few guys automatically said my WLR primers were definitely the issue.

Blew 1 primer out completely and had severe gas leaks in 4 others in a brand new 6 creed build, under book max loads at that! 41g H4350 with a 108g ELDM. Not a happy camper. Waiting for them to decide what they're gonna do next...Kinda sucks because LR primers are nowhere to be found these days, and I only have a couple hundred each of Fed 210s and CCI 200s left...

No damage to my boltface thank god, as I already took it to my smith and he looked it over. I mean there's a little bit of gas marks on the boltface, but the firing pin is good, still goes bang, and still shoots 1/3 MOA. Im not gonna worry about it anyway. It's kinda weird though because I only had 5 of the 50 act up. The other 45 cases/primers look perfectly fine. No ejector mark, no sticky bolt lift, etc.

View attachment 1540560
View attachment 1540566

That bolt face damage would be very upsetting. To say the least.

 

[kyotekiller25]

That bolt face damage would be very upsetting. To say the least.

How does a guy fix that anyway? It's a vanguard bolt by the way.

My smith said it's really nothing to worry about, so I just took his word for it. I don't know, I'm not a smith. I'm just a shooter.

 

[jpjulian]

A number of years ago now but Winchester primers pierced and cut through as shown in the pics above in 3 different rifles. I sent some of the primers back to Winchester along with the brass they pierced in, (spent, pierced primers), and they told me operator error. I was seating them incorrectly, not seating deeply enough. Yeah right.......

 

[kyotekiller25]

Yah I don't have much faith in those idiots to do me right either. I called weatherby today and they referred me to a certified weatherby gunsmith out of Colorado to get me a new bolt and headspace. He said it's going to cost around $350.

So for that I say screw Winchester. I'll never buy anything from them again, period. Nor will I recommend others to do so. And lastly, I will spread the word on every last forum to make sure they lose as much money and customers as possible.

For me to have to go through this huge pain in the ass of taking my scope off, packing up my rifle and shipping halfway across the country, and then be without my coyote rifle, and make me pay for it, has done pissed me off to no end.

This is literally a brand new build that I just got back 2 months ago, that took over a year to be completed and get back to me in the first place. And now with less than 75 rounds through it, barrels not even broke in, I have to get a new bolt because Winchester doesn't know how to make Fking primers, and or stand behind their product really isn't sitting well with me.

 

[Krogen]

Back around 1990, I had the same problem with Federal large pistol and rifle primers. Pinholes in the outer edge of the primer and radial cracks from the primer indentation to the edge of the primer. This happened with both magnum and standard primers in pistols and rifles. Four basic primer types with the trouble, and all associated with large primers. Never an issue with small primers. I swore off Federals, went to CCI and never looked back.

I suppose all this says is that I have a long memory and perhaps the tendency to hold a grudge. It may also point out that various companies have troubles now and then; it's not exclusive to Winchester. Most likely Federal primers are just fine. Lots of people use them without complaint. But etched bolt faces and puffs of gas from the action got my attention.

 

[boltfluter]

How does a guy fix that anyway? It's a vanguard bolt by the way.

My smith said it's really nothing to worry about, so I just took his word for it. I don't know, I'm not a smith. I'm just a shooter.

Personally, if it does not effect your brass and you have no extraction issues I would just shoot it. Annoying as it is, if it functions fine just carry on. You can always get another bolt fitted at the factory if it drives you crazy. Just sucks that it happened through no fault of your own.
Paul

 

[SEM]

Well now I know it was not just me, the pic of the Creedmoor brass above is what I had happen with my 226 JDJ last week, 1 in 25 rounds It did leave pieces of primer cup in the pocket now I am more concerned what else did I load with them, shooting in a contender I had soot all over the breech face and on the out side of the barrel on my face side, good thing it is a pistol barrel

 

[358WCF]

I love it.

I've had more primer cracks & etched bolt faces with Federal 210s, & more FTF with CCI than any problems whatever with Winchester.

Keep bad mouthing Winchester primers. More for me, maybe at a better price.

 

[jxb]

Not sure how others contacted Winchester, but they called me today. They want both bricks back, the two blown primers since I have them, and want to know if there's any damage to the firearm. They are mailing me a kit and then apparently I work with someone at Olddominion (trucking) for the pick up. That's who they use when they need to pull back hazmat items. You might try e-mailing her directly anyhow because the pics I attached to their online form didn't come through and I had to e-mail them to her.

Here's the info for the lady that called me today. My lot of 41 primers isn't known to have any issues but they will test them all to see if those two were a one-off or they have an issue with that lot. Apparently they look up the date and shift they were made, etc. Anyhow, I'm sure this happens with all the manufacturers now and then, just not fun being one that ran into the bad ones.

Taylor Rinehart
Winchester Ammunition | Product Services Associate
TRinehart@olin.com | 618-258-2734

 

[DaveTooley]

This issue has been around for decades and all manufactures have had problems. LG, SM doesn't matter. Sooner or later it will happen to you. I think about 1980 with Federal 205M's was my first experience.
Just part of my procedure is when I put brass back into an ammo box I put it in neck down and glance at the primers.