Witches Brew from Holland -- anyone use it?

[drano38]

Does anyone use Holland’s Witches Brew for cleaning their benchrest barrels?
If so, does it clean the barrel w/out removing steel/damaging the barrel?
A friend has Witches Brew and a borescope, and said it rips carbon out in just a few strokes, much faster than JB. But he hasn’t had the borescope long enough to track if there is barrel wear from it.
Makes me wonder if it is safe. I’d like to use it on my new 6 Dasher Benchmark barrel that I’ll receive in a few weeks, but don’t want to put undo wear and tear on a new barrel. Cleaning a custom hunting rifle once or twice a year with something that may remove a bit of steal could be acceptable, but not a target barrel that gets cleaned several times a month.
I emailed Holland to get more info, but got no response.

Any opinions from current users would be appreciated.

Thanks in advance

 

[SlowpokeRodriguez]

Well let me tell you what I have seen with my own eyes---yes your buddy is right it does work that good. Saw it used last year at a match on one of my buddies rifles who is in the bullet industry and the bore scope does not lie. I would use his name but he would kill me for doing it --- FWIW I am going to try it but I use IOSSO and it works pretty good as well...

 

[memilanuk]

I've been using it a bit over the last oh, 6-8 months or so. While I'm a big fan of the WipeOut family of products, Witches Brew does seem to get the carbon out with minimal fuss/muss. I don't have a bore scope to back that up with, so take it for what its worth.

YMMV,

Monte

 

[243Mendoza]

Where can I get it? Midway no longer sells it. Is Holland still in business?

Found the Holland website. Google was confused.

 

[rjs1230]

I could be wrong but isn't witches brew kroil
and aluminum oxide powder .

 

[Prose]

I could be wrong but isn't witches brew kroil
and aluminum oxide powder .

God I hope not. Aluminum Oxide is almost as hard as a diamond. I've spent close to a year trying to figure out what abrasive he uses through open source but no luck. Haven't been able to get my hands on any to figure it out for myself either, but seeing that he's in the gun business, and not out of business, I'd rule out Aluminum Oxide.

Now that starbuck's has a witches brew coffee drink you can't really google the product.

 

[NCVarhtr]

Its my understanding that its 2000 microns of Aluminum Oxide in, I believe Kroil. I have used it a lot. It works great. The owner of Pac-Nor told me that they use and recommend it-highly ! After you use it, and get it in your barrel, it takes a while to get it out. I usually use kroil with lots of patches and a brush to get all of it out. Will it hurt your barrel? I haven't seen any negative affects from it. I'm not a benchrest shooter...However, I do have a borescope and us it regularly. You might call Pac-Nor and ask them ….
Hopes this helps a little....

 

[Prose]

Ha, well according to Pac-Nor Barrels it is 1200 Micron Inch AL Oxide in Kroil. That would etch the steel if true. Holland's own advertising states it is a "Mild Abrasive." Considering Al Oxide is the hardest abrasive powder there is (less diamonds), he's either a liar or Pac-Nor is wrong. Considering Mr. Dichter from Pac-Nor also states in the same interview that JB is more aggressive than Witches Brew he must have his facts misaligned as JB is made from Garnet (Hardness of 7) and Al Oxide is a 9 on the Mohs Scale
http://www.6mmbr.com/borebrushing.html

 

[Prose]

Where can I get it? Midway no longer sells it. Is Holland still in business?

Found the Holland website. Google was confused.

https://shop.tkroutdoors.com/Hollan...ore-Cleaning-Solvent-8oz-Liquid-HWBCR-8oz.htm

Says backordered. Could be no longer made?

 

[oldduc]

^^^^^^
I'd be careful about calling folks liars

https://www.hollandguns.com

 

[gme]

It will remove carbon and strip the bore completely bare, thing is after use it takes a number of shots to get it shooting consistently again

 

[Prose]

^^^^^^
I'd be careful about calling folks liars

https://www.hollandguns.com

Clearly, I meant that Pac-Nor is mistaken. The link you provided shows that Holland Himself calls it a mild abrasive which rules out, scientifically, Al Oxide. Al Oxide is not a mild abrasive and 1,200 -2,000 micron level, btw, that is about 600 grit (NOT MILD). So there is NO WAY that Pac-Nor is correct unless the product is radically misrepresented.

So I'm not calling anyone a liar. Holland's runs a good business and has a good reputation. I am saying that no one knows what it's made of. Pacnor is wrong, but I have no proof other than the fact I've been researching this stuff for a long time.

Al Oxide would be very hard to remove from the barrel b/c Al Oxide embeds in barrel steal. Al Oxide is not a rounded and smooth product, it is jagged under the microscope and is the same thing that grows on uncoated AL cleaning rods which is known to wreck barrels in a single pass.

 

[STS]

Ha, well according to Pac-Nor Barrels it is 1200 Micron Inch AL Oxide in Kroil. That would etch the steel if true. Holland's own advertising states it is a "Mild Abrasive." Considering Al Oxide is the hardest abrasive powder there is (less diamonds), he's either a liar or Pac-Nor is wrong. Considering Mr. Dichter from Pac-Nor also states in the same interview that JB is more aggressive than Witches Brew he must have his facts misaligned as JB is made from Garnet (Hardness of 7) and Al Oxide is a 9 on the Mohs Scale
http://www.6mmbr.com/borebrushing.html

Couple of things for you. The abrasive size may be 1200 GRIT, but it's not 1200 microns. 1200 microns is .047 inches which is a bit less than 1/3 the size of a BB. Also silicon carbide is harder on the Mohs scale than aluminum oxide.

 

[Prose]

Couple of things for you. The abrasive size may be 1200 GRIT, but it's not 1200 microns. 1200 microns is .047 inches which is a bit less than 1/3 the size of a BB. Also silicon carbide is harder on the Mohs scale than aluminum oxide.

Silicon Carbide can be equal to or harder, yes.

Yes, I also agree with you on size. Pac-Nor states 1200 microns which simply is not accurate.

1200 grit would be believable but is fine compared to most other products on the market. (mostly about 800). Bore polishes generally are 1200 - 2,000 grit and max out around 7 on the hardness scales.

My point with all these long-winded posts is that the very limited information available on the internet, all of which are hyperlinked in this thread, are inaccurate for reasons outlined throughout this thread. I'd love to know for certain but I don't. I sent Holland's an email asking him to verify the information published by Pac-Nor and 6mmbr.com

 

[Terry]

I like it and use it regularly.

 

[Gina1]

Ditto... Does a really great job cleaning. Just be sure to use a really good bronze brush.

 

[Depart123]

I have been using it for about 10 years. It works as advertised. I normally use a maximum of 4 patches for a heavily coppered barrel. I use a scrubbing motion instead of just pushing them through.

I use brake cleaner to spray out the bore afterward and patch it dry. The Witches Brew will not come out blue, it comes out black with copper. When the barrel is clean, patches will continue to come out grey because you are continuing to polish steel. So, you have to really pay attention to know when you are done.

 

[Terry]

I just use patches. Works for me.

 

[Prose]

I received a reply from Darrell Holland regarding his product. [Witches Brew]

He states,
"We use a special petroleum carrier and a 1200 micron abrasive similar (of hardness) to JB. Recommended use every 80-100 rnds. 10-15 strokes use a copper brush wrapped with a patch. Removes both carbon and copper. Works like a million bucks when used with a bore scope. Note, all patches come out blackish, 10-15 strokes is normally all it takes. Does not contain any ammonia."

My thoughts on this...
When companies "mesh" their powders they often do so by screen size. These sizes are not standardized and most of them do not directly correlate microns to grits. Some advertisers interchange the terms and makes it difficult to understand.