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- Thread starter TheBlueEyedBear
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Steve,
Don't think Rhino was actually blaming you for his bullets coming apart, just makeing tongue in cheek remarks. Kinda like the "eversince you fixed my flat tire, my car overheats" that mechanics hear all the time.
I bought a used Viper drop port and it is the most user friendly rifle I have ever shot. I would build another if I could afford it.
Don't think Rhino was actually blaming you for his bullets coming apart, just makeing tongue in cheek remarks. Kinda like the "eversince you fixed my flat tire, my car overheats" that mechanics hear all the time.
I bought a used Viper drop port and it is the most user friendly rifle I have ever shot. I would build another if I could afford it.
Attachments
TheBlueEyedBear
'The Nut Behind The Trigger'
Stephenperry
I don't know who you are and really don't care, but after reading your response, obviously,'your elevator does NOT go all the way up.'
Kay,
Are you dyslexic or did you just not read and understand my post. I did not just order the gun a week ago. The order was placed mid January and it is now July. Do I need to count the months for you.
I am almost 63 and retired. All I have is time, so waiting is not a problem,until the good Lord says it's time to go). It's the unnecessary waiting that really gets me.
The reason for the original post was to make other new comers,like me) aware of what can happen.
I don't know who you are and really don't care, but after reading your response, obviously,'your elevator does NOT go all the way up.'
Kay,
Are you dyslexic or did you just not read and understand my post. I did not just order the gun a week ago. The order was placed mid January and it is now July. Do I need to count the months for you.
I am almost 63 and retired. All I have is time, so waiting is not a problem,until the good Lord says it's time to go). It's the unnecessary waiting that really gets me.
The reason for the original post was to make other new comers,like me) aware of what can happen.
TheBlueEyedBear said:
Mr Bear,
You have a lot to learn in this sport and I wish you luck my friend as you will need it.
Custom actions are exactly that....Custom. That means you wait the wait to get exactly what you want. What you can do though is check and see what Bruno/Sinclair/Hayden/Hoehn/Kelbly's etc. may have on the shelf. You might have to make compromises though, for example a round action instead of a multiflat, or a left port rather than a right, but you can get it right now. Same goes for stocks etc.
I do agree with the fact that I expect an honest estimate. If the man tells me 6 months I shouldn't have to settle for 8 or 10.
If a gunsmith tells me he'll rebarrel my rifle within 10 days I don't expect it to be a month. Same goes for when I take my truck for brakes I don't expect to have to wait weeks, that's why we make appointments. I agree, sometimes there are extenuating circumstances, a death in the family for example. Lets treat these situations with courtesy, as we would like to be treated in turn. If the guy starts having a death in the family every week, just don't go to him anymore.
I know guys that use the same gunsmith over and over, and bitch about him over and over because he dosen't deliver when promised. It's simple, if you don't like it go elsewhere.
I sympathize with the Blue Eyed Bear, it's frustrating but there are other ways to skin a cat. I had Bruno's build me a rifle in ten days, the only change I had to make was in the choice of an action. You can't get much faster than that. He had all the parts on the shelf. Mr Bear that's worth considering.
Danny
I do agree with the fact that I expect an honest estimate. If the man tells me 6 months I shouldn't have to settle for 8 or 10.
If a gunsmith tells me he'll rebarrel my rifle within 10 days I don't expect it to be a month. Same goes for when I take my truck for brakes I don't expect to have to wait weeks, that's why we make appointments. I agree, sometimes there are extenuating circumstances, a death in the family for example. Lets treat these situations with courtesy, as we would like to be treated in turn. If the guy starts having a death in the family every week, just don't go to him anymore.
I know guys that use the same gunsmith over and over, and bitch about him over and over because he dosen't deliver when promised. It's simple, if you don't like it go elsewhere.
I sympathize with the Blue Eyed Bear, it's frustrating but there are other ways to skin a cat. I had Bruno's build me a rifle in ten days, the only change I had to make was in the choice of an action. You can't get much faster than that. He had all the parts on the shelf. Mr Bear that's worth considering.
Danny
Jerry:
You truely do have the patience of a saint. I commend you.
I've been at this for going on close to twenty years. The contract work is picking up. It pays better, by miles) and is better work.
Right now, my new 85,000 dollar cylindrical grinder is grossing close to 2000 a day. Backlog is over 120 days work. Rifles and sights kind of take a back seat.
When some customer gets a hair across his ass, I either send his stuff back or tell him to check out Wally World for the product he's looking for. Life is too short to have to deal with with that stuff for me.
Mr. O'Connor: I love it when guys like you do an auto add to my "never in a hundred years" list. I don't need you as a customer, and I think there are very few who do. Why don't you just spend a life time learning and build your own shit and SHUT UP!
Alan Warner
You truely do have the patience of a saint. I commend you.
I've been at this for going on close to twenty years. The contract work is picking up. It pays better, by miles) and is better work.
Right now, my new 85,000 dollar cylindrical grinder is grossing close to 2000 a day. Backlog is over 120 days work. Rifles and sights kind of take a back seat.
When some customer gets a hair across his ass, I either send his stuff back or tell him to check out Wally World for the product he's looking for. Life is too short to have to deal with with that stuff for me.
Mr. O'Connor: I love it when guys like you do an auto add to my "never in a hundred years" list. I don't need you as a customer, and I think there are very few who do. Why don't you just spend a life time learning and build your own shit and SHUT UP!
Alan Warner
TheBlueEyedBear
'The Nut Behind The Trigger'
Alan;
Great idea, Air-Head!! That will give me something to do in my next 60 years.
Great idea, Air-Head!! That will give me something to do in my next 60 years.
Dear Mr. Stiller,
I do not currently own any of your actions as I shoot High Power. However, If you ever make a dedicated action for H.P. or Palma, I will certainly be on your waiting list. Your civilized conduct while under attack on this forum is well, inspiring. I wish you all the best with your business and may blessings follow you.
Sincerely,
Scott Parker
Bakersfield CA
I do not currently own any of your actions as I shoot High Power. However, If you ever make a dedicated action for H.P. or Palma, I will certainly be on your waiting list. Your civilized conduct while under attack on this forum is well, inspiring. I wish you all the best with your business and may blessings follow you.
Sincerely,
Scott Parker
Bakersfield CA
One issue that I have with airing laundry on this forum is that private transactions are just that, private. Pissing off Alan Warner who possesses a wealth of information about long range shooting and highest quality rifle smithing does no one on this site any favors. Using this forum as your sword bearer is in bad taste. You might consider that your actions may have lasting effects on others not involved with your issue at all.
Mr. Warner, I hope that this incident will in no way prejudice your interactions with other members of this site.
Sincerely,
Scott Parker
Bakersfield CA
Mr. Warner, I hope that this incident will in no way prejudice your interactions with other members of this site.
Sincerely,
Scott Parker
Bakersfield CA
TheBlueEyedBear said:
don't know I,,I crack myself up)... no I read your post you said he said the action would be there in march: first off...that could very well mean march 31st and through it he said finally it would arrive in june soooo april and may = two months late,YYEEAAHH! I BE SMART) actually though you could get me for he could have been june 30th making it really three months so my bad. But he did tell you 6 weeks delay making it only 2-6 weeks late because you excepted the terms of the delay.
Actually, you are doing a nice job of showing your colors on the forum here... you are such the gentleman.
I agree with your post of making those aware it takes time to build a custom gun but you did it in such a pleasent way. Take care and enjoy benchrest.
Bad Thread
I too will be glad when editor comes back. I would hope he would kill this Thread and all it's adjoining Posts. Shooters come to this Forum for 1st rate info, this Thread is about as bad as things can get. Blue Balls kill this Thread.
Stephen Perry
I too will be glad when editor comes back. I would hope he would kill this Thread and all it's adjoining Posts. Shooters come to this Forum for 1st rate info, this Thread is about as bad as things can get. Blue Balls kill this Thread.
Stephen Perry
When I bought my first custom action, I was looking to get an accurate delivery estimate and none of the guys with stock items had what I was looking for.
I spoke with Jerry and Curtis and they made it very clear to me that their estimate,IIRC about 4 months) was simply that - an estimate and subject to change. Since I thought I needed something more concrete, I thanked them for their advice and went elsewhere. I had no issue whatsoever with their product or service - I just happened to have a self imposed deadline I needed to meet and wanted to give myself a fair chance of meeting it. Had I been in a position to risk a delivery delay, I probably would have ordered off them.
In the end, my first action was a Nesika. Perhaps naively, I believed Richard when he told me he could "almost certainly" deliver within 3 months. Whether he was wise to offer such a firm delivery margin or not, I don't know but in the end, they did deliver in just over 8 weeks. Maybe I got lucky, maybe not.
Since then, I have chilled out a bit about deadlines. In any case, I now had my first custom gun so the enthusiasm and feeling of "got to have it now" settled down a bit. I've since ordered two actions from Jim Kelbly - both delivered in 4 months,estimate) + 2 additional weeks,actual) but in the end, I wouldn't have really cared if they took longer, as long as I was let know they were going to be late.
Now if Jerry wants to offer a soon to be finished action at $150 off to just anyone, I'll gladly take it off his hands
I spoke with Jerry and Curtis and they made it very clear to me that their estimate,IIRC about 4 months) was simply that - an estimate and subject to change. Since I thought I needed something more concrete, I thanked them for their advice and went elsewhere. I had no issue whatsoever with their product or service - I just happened to have a self imposed deadline I needed to meet and wanted to give myself a fair chance of meeting it. Had I been in a position to risk a delivery delay, I probably would have ordered off them.
In the end, my first action was a Nesika. Perhaps naively, I believed Richard when he told me he could "almost certainly" deliver within 3 months. Whether he was wise to offer such a firm delivery margin or not, I don't know but in the end, they did deliver in just over 8 weeks. Maybe I got lucky, maybe not.
Since then, I have chilled out a bit about deadlines. In any case, I now had my first custom gun so the enthusiasm and feeling of "got to have it now" settled down a bit. I've since ordered two actions from Jim Kelbly - both delivered in 4 months,estimate) + 2 additional weeks,actual) but in the end, I wouldn't have really cared if they took longer, as long as I was let know they were going to be late.
Now if Jerry wants to offer a soon to be finished action at $150 off to just anyone, I'll gladly take it off his hands
BoydAllen
Gold $$ Contributor
Yes, having your project delayed because some one had too many balls in the air and dropped one was legitimately and seriously irritating.
Yes, Jerry explained how it came to happen, said that he was sorry, and promptly refunded your deposit.
Yes, some folks have jumped in to try to do a little damage control, because they have enough experience to know that these sort of things can happen with the best of intentions.
Yes, your use of the word Liar was more than a little over the top, and said more about you than him.
Yes, the Internet lets us take this sort of thing to the whole world, whether it is a good idea or not.
Yes, Jerry and Curtis are seriously good guys, who do good work, and who, like all of us will learn from their mistakes, and continue to improve.
No, I really don't care what you think of any of this.
My problem is that every time that I think about starting a new rifle project with a different action, I remind myself of how dissapointed I would be if it was not as accurate as the one that Jerry built for me with one of his actions, which works so well that I can hardly justify buying another.
After I post this I am getting out my check book and writing one to Stiller Precision for $315 for fitting and chambering two barrels, that I know will be shipped tomorrow, and which I fully expect,based on provious experience) to be so precisely headspaced,with my reamer) that any of my old brass will work just fine,and I didn't even have to send them my rifle).
Boyd Allen ....one of their many satisfied customers, and a friend.
Yes, Jerry explained how it came to happen, said that he was sorry, and promptly refunded your deposit.
Yes, some folks have jumped in to try to do a little damage control, because they have enough experience to know that these sort of things can happen with the best of intentions.
Yes, your use of the word Liar was more than a little over the top, and said more about you than him.
Yes, the Internet lets us take this sort of thing to the whole world, whether it is a good idea or not.
Yes, Jerry and Curtis are seriously good guys, who do good work, and who, like all of us will learn from their mistakes, and continue to improve.
No, I really don't care what you think of any of this.
My problem is that every time that I think about starting a new rifle project with a different action, I remind myself of how dissapointed I would be if it was not as accurate as the one that Jerry built for me with one of his actions, which works so well that I can hardly justify buying another.
After I post this I am getting out my check book and writing one to Stiller Precision for $315 for fitting and chambering two barrels, that I know will be shipped tomorrow, and which I fully expect,based on provious experience) to be so precisely headspaced,with my reamer) that any of my old brass will work just fine,and I didn't even have to send them my rifle).
Boyd Allen ....one of their many satisfied customers, and a friend.
Here is a deal for anybody reading this damn long thread. If you want a RBLP Drop PPC Viper, I will sell one to you for $100 off the retail price. That will be $850 + $20 shipping. I only have about 10 left, so if you want one, let me know. Maybe that will help the masses. And yes, they are in stock.
PS. Thanks to the guys that know us and continue to support us. Curtis and I really do care and try our best. Dont let this kind of thing bother you. If you are in the BR business, or any other for that fact, you need a thick skin and a leash on your temper. It will be alright.
PS. Thanks to the guys that know us and continue to support us. Curtis and I really do care and try our best. Dont let this kind of thing bother you. If you are in the BR business, or any other for that fact, you need a thick skin and a leash on your temper. It will be alright.
Wow...BEB -- that is about enough...
Both sides are present, olive branch has been extended,and what an olive branch it is!), grab it, or get over it...you only have two choices...
Please don't let this get more personal than it has. Present facts, not attacks, K?,dang, that almost rhymed...)
Jerry -- I will be running the Viper and D-back this weekend at the Williasmport World Open... :thumb:
Blue eyed bear: consider this your one and only warning. Facts are fine, present them as you wish, but you have since laid personal attacks on several members, and that will not be tolerated.
JB
Both sides are present, olive branch has been extended,and what an olive branch it is!), grab it, or get over it...you only have two choices...
Please don't let this get more personal than it has. Present facts, not attacks, K?,dang, that almost rhymed...)
Jerry -- I will be running the Viper and D-back this weekend at the Williasmport World Open... :thumb:
Blue eyed bear: consider this your one and only warning. Facts are fine, present them as you wish, but you have since laid personal attacks on several members, and that will not be tolerated.
JB
stiller said:
Mr. Stiller,
Wow - what an offer. ,In particular in a thread where you are taking an unnecessary beating.)
If you are still reading this, will the PPC drop port work with a 6.5 PPC,Grendel) case? I can't see that the larger neck would inhibit the operation, but it is better to ask.
Thanks!!
Mark Walker
stiller said:
Case in route to you. Thanks.
Mr. Stiller, I am just beginning to think in Benchrest shooting,I am most a position rifle shooter) and learning a lot from this Forum.
I sent you a letter some weeks ago for an estimate price of a Predator action barreled and you answer me just hours after! And with all the information I requested, including the export part of it.
What I have to say to you is that my first Benchrest gun will be on a Stiller action!,probably a Predator)
Your fast email answer and your conduct on this Forum makes me a firm believer of your serious customer relation and the products you make as everyone on this Forum says.
I will do business with you. You deserve my hard earned money, my time and energy in trying to get a a Import Permit rifle from my govt. country,it can take almost a year).
Keep the good work and as soon I have my Import Permit, I will contact you again.
Thanks!
I sent you a letter some weeks ago for an estimate price of a Predator action barreled and you answer me just hours after! And with all the information I requested, including the export part of it.
What I have to say to you is that my first Benchrest gun will be on a Stiller action!,probably a Predator)
Your fast email answer and your conduct on this Forum makes me a firm believer of your serious customer relation and the products you make as everyone on this Forum says.
I will do business with you. You deserve my hard earned money, my time and energy in trying to get a a Import Permit rifle from my govt. country,it can take almost a year).
Keep the good work and as soon I have my Import Permit, I will contact you again.
Thanks!
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