Wipeout patch out

[gunsandgunsmithing]

Hey Mike! Your welcome on the reply!

No not an issue with using the brush.

The butt I have to throw in there is if a brush is used in conjunction with an abrasive cleaner… there is no hiding the damage. When I see that I don’t want to/I’m not eating the barrel. That part I’m done with. That I want to make clear with everyone.

I had one shooter in a 6 month period wreck not one but three barrels! One barrel had only a tad over a 100 rounds on it. The lands were showing the gouges from the brush and the abrasive cleaner. In this case it was witch’s brew and he took a full .001” out of the barrel. I told him I was done and that was the last one I replaced for him and told him so. I told him he had to change his cleaning technique. Then go figure… a few months later…. I get a call from a bullet maker as this same person was claiming they‘re bullets were bad and blowing up but as we went thru the conversation about what causes bullet failures we put 2+2 together. By him wrecking the barrels that’s what was causing the bullets to blow up. It’s a long story but a real one.

Later, Frank

Thank you again Frank! That's how I interpreted what you had said as well but apparently there is still some confusion by some regarding what you said.

I wanted it cleared for myself, to be certain, but also hoped you'd clear the air here for others as well.

Thank you for doing so.

I think the bottom line is that most things can be taken to extremes but PROPERLY using a bronze brush and keeping it clean while doing so should not have a negative consequence. With that said, I've seen people work a terrible brush like a sawzall all while bending the rod pretty extremely! I'm like...Whoa! But, I can only say my part and the rest is on them and unfortunately...you. Lol!

To be clear, if I sent a bbl to you and you said I did it with a brush, I could accept that if so and I will never ask for a bbl maker to replace a bbl that I damaged. I just think the whole brush thing needs clarity more than anything and people should understand that too much of a goof thing is not a good thing and that proper use of a good tool is still paramount to good results. That's on top of your point regarding abrasive bore cleaners, which I think we have both addressed to varying degrees..that the abrasive embeds in the brush and will likely damage the bore, either now or later. Can't forget...wipe your rod down every time! That grit or abrasive gets on the rod and even with the best rod and bore guide, the rod will bend in the middle and abrade the bore too. I'd like to hear your thoughts on this as well, fwiw.

 

[FrankG]

So to make it clear to all.....

I don't have an issue with a bronze brush being used to clean a barrel.

No stainless steel brushes though!

Just be careful in how you use them.

In regards to some calibers.... especially bore size vs case capacity and or the combination of powder being used...the fouling can build up heavier or quicker etc...and there comes a time no matter what... that you need to use a brush.

 

[FrankG]

Also when a shooter lets the barrel get away from them from not cleaning or not doing a good job of cleaning... it's gonna take you longer to get the barrel cleaned/get it back shooting good. A 15 minute or a 30 minute cleaning job isn't going to cut it.

Just no abrasive cleaners with a brush. Guaranteed problems.

Even abrasive cleaners by themselves.... watch what your doing.

 

[gunsandgunsmithing]

I think the possibility is there to say that we literally damage a bbl to some degree, every single time we run a rod into it. That rod is almost inevitably going to come into contact with the bore and likely have some amount of debris on it when it does, regardless of whose bore guide we use. The rod will flex a few thou and there's just nothing we can do to stop it, 100%.

So, we know the rod touches the bore and we haven't even begun to talk about a brush or the joint where the brush/jag attaches. Dinged crowns are very common! I see people run rods 100mph and all I can do is ask "WHY"?

I think every time we put a rod in the bore we are risking some amount of damage but normally, very little to nothing detectable. I think a common issue is a patch that's a little or a lot too tight. Dry vs wet will feel different so should we use a looser fitting dry patch than wet? What about the brush? Same thing but a loose fitting brush is just not doing anything good. It can only be bad.

My thinking is so simple really and it's just to minimize the opportunities for whatever you are putting in the bbl to do damage. So, minimize the strokes and keep the rod, patch and brush as clean as reasonably possible. I always wipe the rod clean. I prefer a tight, fresh bronze brush and patches don't are snug but not too tight. Most everything I just said is hard to quantify(other than clean) and I know some people just don't work well with subjective "feel" type things.

All that said, it's not rocket science either. Mostly, just use your noggin and all will be fine.

 

[TRSR8]

I use WO/PO with a good BR brush but always finish with the brush swirled in a cup of water to flush it since WO is water soluble. Finish with lock-ease….good to go.

Forum Boss: The inventor of Wipe-Out Foam suggests just using dry patches because the Foam is designed to leave a slight molecular protective coating intended to reduce fowling over time. I have found that repeated use of WipeOut foam does seem to make cleaning easier -- YMMV. People would not believe how little brushing I need to do. I do apply the foam at the range, while the barrel is still warm.

 

[1911nut]

Also when a shooter lets the barrel get away from them from not cleaning or not doing a good job of cleaning... it's gonna take you longer to get the barrel cleaned/get it back shooting good. A 15 minute or a 30 minute cleaning job isn't going to cut it.

Just no abrasive cleaners with a brush. Guaranteed problems.

Even abrasive cleaners by themselves.... watch what your doing.

Frank, so you would recommend against Iosso bore cleaner with their super stiff blue nylon brush?

 

[gunsandgunsmithing]

Frank, so you would recommend against Iosso bore cleaner with their super stiff blue nylon brush?

From our phone conversation, and of course he's welcome to clarify if Im wrong, but...zero brush with an abrasive cleaner of any kind., and I agree, fwiw. Any brush plus any abrasive is a no go. I have no problem with that at all. Totally understand.

 

[FrankG]

Frank, so you would recommend against Iosso bore cleaner with their super stiff blue nylon brush?

Correct... no brush of any kind with any abrasive. I don't care if it's an abrasive liquid cleaner as well like Remington 40x cleaner, Thorro Clean, Witch's brew etc...and applies to paste cleaners like Iosso, KG2, Flitz etc...

 

[Dimner]

I'm still reading through this whole thread, but I wanted to let yall know.

I was using wipe out foaming cleaner last night. On a rifle that has about 60-75 rounds through it since the last the last full cleaning I gave it. I foamed the bore, let it sit 15 mins, ran some patches through it until they were clean, then foamed again let sit for 20 minutes, then ran my iosso blue brush through it, then patched out until clean. Then run MC-7 through it to get all the wipe out and run dry patches until clean. That's usually where I stop and call it clean. (I do not compete, and this is a LR hunting rifle)

Well, I figure it's a good time to try the Bore Tech Carbon C4 remover to see if it lives up to its name. Well, wouldn't you know, that bore started spitting out patches with black streaks again. Not fully black, but I could tell it was getting in the land/groove corners. Made me a believer.

Now I just have to see if there is any benefit on the target.

 

[jamesdmock]

I know that everyone has a "magic" cleaning regimen. Although mine is not magic, I have found it to be simple and fairly effective. I only use Butch's Bore Shine since it has a petroleum base. First, I run two wet patches, followed by about 20 passes with a nylon brush soaked in BBS. After this, I run a patch with BBS through the bore. I patch out with clean patches until there is nothing on the patch. Works for me!!

 

[gunsandgunsmithing]

I know that everyone has a "magic" cleaning regimen. Although mine is not magic, I have found it to be simple and fairly effective. I only use Butch's Bore Shine since it has a petroleum base. First, I run two wet patches, followed by about 20 passes with a nylon brush soaked in BBS. After this, I run a patch with BBS through the bore. I patch out with clean patches until there is nothing on the patch. Works for me!!

Why do you make things so difficult James? Lol!