Wipeout patch out

[K9TXS]

I've been using the Wipe Out (W/O) products since they came out and just followed the instructions.

When I ran out of W/O and couldn't find it anywhere, I tried the Hoppes 9 foaming cleaner. It worked every bit as well as the W/O products. The Hoppes foaming cleaner shows the blue on the patch when copper is still in the bore as the W/O does.

I bought several cans of the Hoppes and when W/O was available again, I purchased several bottles of both the W/O cleaner and accelerator to keep on hand.

I still use both.

 

[gunsandgunsmithing]

As others have said, just follow the instructions on the label, but it's good stuff.
I find it more effective on copper than most other products but my process starts with a bronze brush and a good carbon solvent, first. Idea being to simply get most of the carbon out, exposing the copper to the Patch Out. It works well but I find other products do work a little better on carbon, so I start by brushing with something that works for me on the carbon. A brush greatly aids any carbon cleaner by scoring the carbon and allowing the cleaner better penetration into and under the carbon. Not complicated at all. I don't want to get into brushing vs not etc. I'll just say that I'm not afraid of a good quality, CLEAN bronze brush, not even a little bit. YMMV. I feel it reduces the number of needed strokes to effectively clean the bore. I've never had a problem and my process works for ME.

To the point, Patch Out and Accelerator together is a good cleaning product, particularly on copper and pretty good on carbon but I have some of the really old GM top end cleaner that is still the best stuff I've ever found to date for carbon. Too bad all the good stuff is no longer available. Free All works pretty well too, IME.

And of course I verify cleanliness with a bore scope, which also verifies my process doesn't hurt the barrels....FWIW. There's more than one way to clean a barrel without hurting it.

 

[quest450]

I wouldn't buy a barrel from any mfg that says the warranty is void if you put a brush through the barrel. That's nuts

my bad I retracted that statement

 

[JSH]

Been using it since I first got some as a door prize at a match years ago.
I found better results when there is no petroleum products in the bore. Before the accelerator was marketed, I used petroleum based cleaners before, then wipeout. I later learned to clean that out with brake cleaner or alcohol. So I use little if any cleaner other than wipeout.

 

[rebs]

read the label and follow mfg instructions

https://sharpshootr.com/wp-content/uploads/2020/06/WIPE-OUT-INSTRUCTIONS-2020..pdf

it says no brush is needed but if you use the accelerator. to put it on a brush with the accelerator together. Sounds kind of contradictory.

 

[quest450]

While this product has been designed to be totally brushless, admittedly there are those who still wish to use a brush. If the user will take two strokes through the bore with a nylon brush “PATCH-OUT” ™ will produce a luxurious thick lather. Allow it to set as per original instructions for faster result

yeah no brush needed but I guess there are ppl that will always try to improve the cleaning process, I tried WO/PO but went back to my trusty BT Eliminator and a bronze brush.

 

[gunsandgunsmithing]

yeah no brush needed but I guess there are ppl that will always try to improve the cleaning process, I tried WO/PO but went back to my trusty BT Eliminator and a bronze brush.

Eliminator works well too, maybe a tad better even but both are good and I just prefer the "read of the patch" of Patch Out vs BT is all. FWIW, I'd rubbed Eliminator on the Outside of a new blank and saw the patch turn slightly blue. Lol! Not sure how but it did.

 

[SSchnd]

I do not use brushes with either, Maybe I will try it with the patch out.
I have accelerator but do not use it either.
Both seam to work great on copper.

 

[Chaotik]

I thought the whole idea of using Wipe Out - Patch out was no brushing of any kind, some barrel makers will void the warranty if you use a bronze brush, there seems to be quiet few shooters that brush and use other solvents prior to WO-PO....kinda defeats the purpose IMO.

Well Mark, I am sure that your memory is better than mine.... but I think I remember Frank of Bartlein barrels in a Youtube video (I believe with Erik Cortina) stating that using brushes (especially bronze brushes) was a bad thing. Not sure if they would honor a warranty if you did, but my impression from the video was that they would not.

And I use bronze and nylon brushes with every cleaning.

 

[quest450]

Bob, I do remember clearly when Frank said in an interview that using a bronze brush would void the warranty and I went back to that video but couldn't find it therefore I retracted my statement, it could've been edited out, well that restored my faith in Bartlein barrels since I always use a bronze brush cleaning them

 

[prone.life]

* Erik Cortina came out with a cleaning video promoting CLR as the end all be all carbon cleaner
* Keith Glasscock came out with a video demonstrating CLR pitting SS
* A couple of major barrel makers made statements that CLR voided their warranty
* Erik Cortina made a video telling people to stop using CLR although he uses CLR all the time and it hasn't been a problem

-- most of the back and forth is available on the YouTubes

 

[Dkk37058]

Thanks everyone for the comments

 

[gunsandgunsmithing]

I remember a video where Frank was talking about bore brushes used with abrasives, but I have NEVER seen a video where a bbl maker states that properly using a bronze brush to clean their bbl would void their warranty. If I see such a video, I have bought my last bbl that I will ever buy from that maker. Since I think both he and I would like to see this clarified before going any further, I'll tag @FrankG so that he can set this straight, from the horse's mouth. Hopefully he sees it fast.

We should all be very sure we understand what we hear regarding something like this correctly before posting/repeating incorrect info. If I'm wrong, my position is clear and I apologize but I do not believe for a minute that any mfg is gonna void my warranty for properly using a clean and well fitting bronze brush...that has been acceptable for cleaning every other bbl for decades and generations without being very clear that they intend to turn the gun cleaning world upside down and alienate 90% of shooters from buying their product.
Maybe someone is thinking of this. I'd rather hear from Frank but I think this clip gets to the point, but is cut short.

 

[BadSquirrel]

When I use wipe out i'm never sure if the foam covers the entire length of the barrel as the foam backs up into the magazine area before it ever reaches the end of the barrel. I've tried spraying it in from both ends but still do not know if it covers the entire interior of the barrel. Anyone have any experience with this or have an insight?

 

[Jeff Porter]

When I use wipe out i'm never sure if the foam covers the entire length of the barrel as the foam backs up into the magazine area before it ever reaches the end of the barrel. I've tried spraying it in from both ends but still do not know if it covers the entire interior of the barrel. Anyone have any experience with this or have an insight?

I squirt from the muzzle until I can see it in the chamber.

 

[FrankG]

I remember a video where Frank was talking about bore brushes used with abrasives, but I have NEVER seen a video where a bbl maker states that properly using a bronze brush to clean their bbl would void their warranty. If I see such a video, I have bought my last bbl that I will ever buy from that maker. Since I think both he and I would like to see this clarified before going any further, I'll tag @FrankG so that he can set this straight, from the horse's mouth. Hopefully he sees it fast.

We should all be very sure we understand what we hear regarding something like this correctly before posting/repeating incorrect info. If I'm wrong, my position is clear and I apologize but I do not believe for a minute that any mfg is gonna void my warranty for properly using a clean and well fitting bronze brush...that has been acceptable for cleaning every other bbl for decades and generations without being very clear that they intend to turn the gun cleaning world upside down and alienate 90% of shooters from buying their product.
Maybe someone is thinking of this. I'd rather hear from Frank but I think this clip gets to the point, but is cut short.

So I don't think a bronze brush with just solvent on it is necessarily a bad thing or hurts the barrel bad by itself.

I guess the basic problem is how it is used. From one person to the next it varies too much.

One pay attention to the brush and flush it from time to time. If you see black particles in the bristles of the brush that is most likely hard carbon from the powder fouling that is coming out. Those hard carbon particles can and will scratch the bore and if you leave it lay in the brush your just dragging the stuff up and down the bore.

Never ever use a stainless steel brush... that's a guaranteed problem.

Also never ever use any brush in conjunction with any abrasive cleaner....that's guaranteed damage as well.

If I use a brush.... I only push it breech to muzzle and when I exit... I remove the brush and then carefully pull the rod back thru. I don't like dragging the brush back over the muzzles crown. Most damage we see from cleaning is the muzzles crown.

You can argue all you want amongst yourselves that the brush is softer than the steel and won't hurt it etc...all I know is how it's used and in conjunction with how it's used.... seems to be a source of damage.

I remember way back in my early days of shooting I bought my first cleaning rod. It was a one piece rod and came with a muzzle guide. I thought that was cool! Looked like this...


anyways I learned the hard way and even though it was brass... by repeatedly running that cone into the muzzles crown and over time it dinged/damaged the crown. Brass is softer than the steel but it damaged the crown to the point that the gun ended up shooting like garbage and I had to pay a gunsmith at the time to recrown my barrel.

So I'm a freak about dragging stuff over the muzzles crown. It's the last thing a bullet sees/touches when it leaves the barrel and any damage to the crown can and will have a negative impact on accuracy.

Then I look at places who use brushes on a regular basis. A couple of ammo/bullet makers that are customers.

I've got ammunition test barrels back and use them for training tools. One barrel 5.56 they where testing bullets/particular ammo that is known for not holding good accuracy and they need to clean the barrel very often. They used a brush in that barrel a lot. The ammo is so temperamental to the barrel that the barrel needs to be cleaned and they cleaned that barrel on average... after every 37 rounds fired. They asked me to look at it after they pulled it from service (over 14k rounds fired) and check the bore and crown etc... for any damage from cleaning and there was nothing that I could really pick it apart from. They documented 404 rounds/times they cleaned it!

They have another barrel in service in 30cal and it's our barrel.... was just told it has over 26k rounds and basically still shooting .5moa or better and currently they are cleaning after every 30 rounds fired and yes they are using a brush not sure if they use it every single time or not. It will be cool to see that barrel after they pull it from service. This barrel is currently getting a 150 rounds fired thru it every single day! Prior to this week it was getting an average of 408 rounds per week put on it!

So I think again it has a lot to do with how the operator is using the brushes more than anything else and what I say is... "pay attention to what and how your doing it."

Later, Frank

 

[gunsandgunsmithing]

So I don't think a bronze brush with just solvent on it is necessarily a bad thing or hurts the barrel bad by itself.

I guess the basic problem is how it is used. From one person to the next it varies too much.

One pay attention to the brush and flush it from time to time. If you see black particles in the bristles of the brush that is most likely hard carbon from the powder fouling that is coming out. Those hard carbon particles can and will scratch the bore and if you leave it lay in the brush your just dragging the stuff up and down the bore.

Never ever use a stainless steel brush... that's a guaranteed problem.

Also never ever use any brush in conjunction with any abrasive cleaner....that's guaranteed damage as well.

If I use a brush.... I only push it breech to muzzle and when I exit... I remove the brush and then carefully pull the rod back thru. I don't like dragging the brush back over the muzzles crown. Most damage we see from cleaning is the muzzles crown.

You can argue all you want amongst yourselves that the brush is softer than the steel and won't hurt it etc...all I know is how it's used and in conjunction with how it's used.... seems to be a source of damage.

I remember way back in my early days of shooting I bought my first cleaning rod. It was a one piece rod and came with a muzzle guide. I thought that was cool! Looked like this...

View attachment 1547561
anyways I learned the hard way and even though it was brass... by repeatedly running that cone into the muzzles crown and over time it dinged/damaged the crown. Brass is softer than the steel but it damaged the crown to the point that the gun ended up shooting like garbage and I had to pay a gunsmith at the time to recrown my barrel.

So I'm a freak about dragging stuff over the muzzles crown. It's the last thing a bullet sees/touches when it leaves the barrel and any damage to the crown can and will have a negative impact on accuracy.

Then I look at places who use brushes on a regular basis. A couple of ammo/bullet makers that are customers.

I've got ammunition test barrels back and use them for training tools. One barrel (caliber doesn't matter) they where testing bullets/particular ammo that is know for not holding good accuracy and they need to clean the barrel very often. They used a brush in that barrel a lot. The ammo is so temperamental to the barrel being cleaned that they cleaned that barrel on average... after every 37 rounds fired on average. They asked me to look at it after they pulled it from service (over 14k rounds fired) and check the bore and crown etc... for any damage from cleaning and there was nothing that I could really pick it apart from. They documented 404 rounds of cleaning!

They have another barrel in service in 30cal and it's our barrel.... was just told it has over 26k rounds and basically still shooting .5moa or better and currently they are cleaning after every 30 rounds fired and yes they are using a brush not sure if they use it every single time or not. It will be cool to see that barrel after they pull it from service. This barrel is currently getting a 150 rounds fired thru it every single day! Prior to this week it was getting an average of 408 rounds per week put on it!

So I think again it has a lot to do with how the operator is using the brushes more than anything else and what I say is... "pay attention to what and how your doing it."

Later, Frank

Thanks you for your reply Frank!

I wholeheartedly agree with you about hard carbon embedding in brush bristles, both nylon and bronze. Logically, nylon will do so even more than bronze IMHO, just by its softer nature if nothing else. I've long said the same regarding using a CLEAN brush for this reason. I don't believe a clean bronze brush can do damage(used properly) but that the brush is a carrier for the debris they break loose and pick up and yes, that debris essentially makes the brush become slightly abrasive.

Being a short range br competitor who does my own work, I do pay close attention to the condition of my barrels and the crown. I've had good luck setting them back a time or two during their life on some as well as touching up the crown, as needed or even just because I can at times. Some get set back but not all. I really have no hard rule about which ones do or don't but will just say that we all want those really special ones to keep going as long as possible. Lol! After about 1000 rounds, I generally don't consider it a good candidate for a set back with the 6 PPC/Grendel chamberings. I've done them well after that but find that set backs are most beneficial if done before they get that far along. One caveat to that is if I have plenty of bbl length to start with and can cut enough off to get into really good bore, but that's generally cutting a couple of inches off or more and starting over. Just seldom a viable option is all. The set backs I've been referring to are just a thread or so to maintain a fresh throat.

Back when I predominantly shot a 30BR and later a 30 Major a lot more than now, bbl life was not much of an issue but the crown would show a bit of wear during that long bbl life of the small 30's..just what looks like a slight "dulling" of what was cut to be a sharp crown. Under magnification, I've seen very light scratches at that same dulled area at times. I'm sure that's attributable to dragging a brush back through the muzzle..and just time as well as minor flame cutting/erosion, I'm sure too. Anyway, point being, touching up a crown periodically is not a big deal for me but I find that my routine does not generally show these types of issues on the 6mm stuff during it's lifespan but did a bit over the much longer life of the small 30's. So, I don't often bother with it on the 6's as the bbl is likely on its last leg by that point.

But..there are exceptions to lots of things in this game and bbl life is one. Some just keep shooting great way beyond the norm/expected life of these bbls/chambering and in this discipline. I recently replaced the bbl on my Unlimited UBR rifle and that bbl was one of those exceptions. That sucker went an unreal 7000+/- rounds before finally, it started coppering really badly all at once. Yes, a unicorn, for sure in this world. That bbl had I think two National championship agg wins in it over its life and was still hammering well enough I took it to one more Nationals even after it started coppering terribly. Mainly because it happened so fast and right before the match, at that. It still shot teens but had to stay on top of keeping it clean.

I say all that to say this. I don't think you get to that many rounds of top level sr br accuracy with a routine that's damaging your barrels! My whole logic with using a good quality, clean bronze brush is to minimize how many times I have to put a rod in the bbl to effectively clean it. My routine is only 5 or 6 strokes with the brush soaked in old gm top end cleaner(the real stuff) and a short soak. Maybe even more important than any of this is how I use it. You don't see me running it in and out at warp speed. Rather, just a few slow and deliberate stroke with enough solvent to float the crud and keep the brush as clean as is feasible each and every time. Another thing is, don't bother with using old brushes. If the don't fit pretty tight, it'll take more strokes and still not be as effective. The idea being to simply score the carbon a bit, letting the solvent get into and under the carbon. A tight fitting fresh brush does this wayy better than an old one, even if it seems to still fit pretty well. They're cheap guys! I follow the brush and soak with a soaked patch and then a couple of dry patches before going after the copper(if any) with the Patch Out and Accelerator. Any of them are much better when they can come into contact with the copper. The PO works pretty fast this way in most barrels. I patch it out a time or two and repeat if necessary. Usually not, with a good throat, which is where almost all copper fouling originates anyway. That's my routine for Patch Out. Not complicated at all and it's been effective without damage.

So, I think we agree and again, thanks for your reply, but can you please clarify your position on voiding your warranty if I use a brush to clean your barrels? ---Mike

I should add that in roughly 25 years of shooting and gunsmithing for others, I can recall a total of ONE truly bad barrel and it wasn't yours. Some were more competitive than others but all but one in that time were good or great. The one bad one was a hunting rifle bbl fwiw.

 

[Phys86]

I always rinse my bronze brushes off in the sink after using them, thinking the same thing about hard carbon getting stuck in the brush. That's why the only time I ever use a nylon brush is when it's wrapped with a large patch and coated with JBs.

 

[mjl650]

When I use wipe out i'm never sure if the foam covers the entire length of the barrel as the foam backs up into the magazine area before it ever reaches the end of the barrel. I've tried spraying it in from both ends but still do not know if it covers the entire interior of the barrel. Anyone have any experience with this or have an insight?

I use a Dewey bore guide for the appropriate caliber and glue together clear flexible tubing to fit over the guide and then reduce for a snug fit on the cans nozzle. Apply the foam then put foam ear plugs in the barrel end and the bore guide(with tubing still installed). I do this at the range after I’m done shooting.
Don’t pull the can off to soon, there will be a little pressure for a short time (been there done that)
Finish cleaning after I get home or next day or 2.

 

[FrankG]

Thanks you for your reply Frank!

So, I think we agree and again, thanks for your reply, but can you please clarify your position on voiding your warranty if I use a brush to clean your barrels? ---Mike

Hey Mike! Your welcome on the reply!

No not an issue with using the brush.

The butt I have to throw in there is if a brush is used in conjunction with an abrasive cleaner… there is no hiding the damage. When I see that I don’t want to/I’m not eating the barrel. That part I’m done with. That I want to make clear with everyone.

I had one shooter in a 6 month period wreck not one but three barrels! One barrel had only a tad over a 100 rounds on it. The lands were showing the gouges from the brush and the abrasive cleaner. In this case it was witch’s brew and he took a full .001” out of the barrel. I told him I was done and that was the last one I replaced for him and told him so. I told him he had to change his cleaning technique. Then go figure… a few months later…. I get a call from a bullet maker as this same person was claiming they‘re bullets were bad and blowing up but as we went thru the conversation about what causes bullet failures we put 2+2 together. By him wrecking the barrels that’s what was causing the bullets to blow up. It’s a long story but a real one.

Later, Frank