Winchester USA Ready "match" (?) primers

[Woofie]

Does anyone know if there is anything different about these primers from regular Winchester primers? I am assuming not and it's just a difference in packaging. If anyone knows I'd love to hear.

 

[D-4297]

Like all designated "Match" primers , it is my understanding that they get more Q.C. checks , and are held to tighter tolerances . Do they ? Don't know for absolute certain . But I don't think any manufacturer wants to claim "Match" , and send inconsistent junk out the door .

 

[DocBII]

Woofie,

Measure the diameter of the Ready primers and compare to old white box or blue box primers. Let us know which color box they appear to equal. The old white box primers were silver and a thousandth or two bigger than the bronze blue box primers.

Also, Winchester had several bad lots of blue box LR primers, which probably tanked the blue box primer sales. The new box may be an attempt to recover lost market share after they fixed the problems.

HTH,
DocBII

 

[Twicepop]

Woofie,

Measure the diameter of the Ready primers and compare to old white box or blue box primers. Let us know which color box they appear to equal. The old white box primers were silver and a thousandth or two bigger than the bronze blue box primers.

Also, Winchester had several bad lots of blue box LR primers, which probably tanked the blue box primer sales. The new box may be an attempt to recover lost market share after they fixed the problems.

HTH,
DocBII

Over at the Ultimate Reloader web site there is a story about .44 Magnum loads leaking/blowing hot gas around the primer pockets. The follow-up story finds that it is the Winchester brand large pistol primers that are causing the problem. Several of the spent and unfired primers were subjected to a close scrutiny under a microscope and they had cracks through the radiused edge of the primer cups and were blowing out causing the problems.

 

[WyleWD]

Does anyone know if there is anything different about these primers from regular Winchester primers? I am assuming not and it's just a difference in packaging. If anyone knows I'd love to hear.

I called Winchester about a year ago and talked at length with one of their techs with that very question. He told me that the only difference between the current primers and the Match ready primers was that the match primers utilized a more consistent and superior priming compound. And I, like everyone else, haven't been able to find a box for sale to test for almost a year. And as soon as we can get a box we're going to give them a try. JME. WD

 

[Fuj]

I called Winchester about a year ago and talked at length with one of their techs with that very question. He told me that the only difference between the current primers and the Match ready primers was that the match primers utilized a more consistent and superior priming compound. And I, like everyone else, haven't been able to find a box for sale to test for almost a year. And as soon as we can get a box we're going to give them a try. JME. WD

I use blue box for the bulk of my shooting. Mainly fire forming
and initial powder work ups. The supposed match primer from
Winchester has not been found to be tested. Since it first was
advertised, I never found any to buy.....

 

[flatlander]

I stopped buying Winchester primers after they cut costs by omitting the nickel plating. No regrets...

 

[Murray Brook]

I have some of these primers in both large and small rifle. I haven't tried the large rifle ones yet but used the small rifle ones in my 6Br and find them work good.

 

[Iowa Fox]

Woofie,

Measure the diameter of the Ready primers and compare to old white box or blue box primers. Let us know which color box they appear to equal. The old white box primers were silver and a thousandth or two bigger than the bronze blue box primers.

Also, Winchester had several bad lots of blue box LR primers, which probably tanked the blue box primer sales. The new box may be an attempt to recover lost market share after they fixed the problems.

HTH,
DocBII

Do you know what was the problem with the blue box LR? The blue box LR I have is so small they fall in and out of most cases.

 

[Woofie]

Woofie,

Measure the diameter of the Ready primers and compare to old white box or blue box primers. Let us know which color box they appear to equal. The old white box primers were silver and a thousandth or two bigger than the bronze blue box primers.

Also, Winchester had several bad lots of blue box LR primers, which probably tanked the blue box primer sales. The new box may be an attempt to recover lost market share after they fixed the problems.

HTH,
DocBII

I don't even have to leave my desk for this one, since my technical assistant, Mr. Mitutoyo, measures each of my primer batches. Blue box and Red box are the same diameter, 0.210" mas o menos. I bought them, along with some S&B primers for the 2,000 IMI Match 308 cases I have, which have quite tight primer pockets -- 0.2085 (0.208 is relatively easy, 0.209 is a push. My pin gauges are only to 0.001 so I call it 0.2085 for a good press fit)
My primer size progression in LR is:
Win
S&B (these gauge a tad smaller but subjectively WIn are easier to seat)
Federal
CCI
Unis Ginex. (UG primers gauge the same as CCI but subjectively are harder to seat. I love them, wish I had more)

 

[Woofie]

I called Winchester about a year ago and talked at length with one of their techs with that very question. He told me that the only difference between the current primers and the Match ready primers was that the match primers utilized a more consistent and superior priming compound. And I, like everyone else, haven't been able to find a box for sale to test for almost a year. And as soon as we can get a box we're going to give them a try. JME. WD

Good input, appreciate it, thanks.

 

[DocBII]

Do you know what was the problem with the blue box LR? The blue box LR I have is so small they fall in and out of most cases.

Fox,

See Flatlanders reply, Winchester failed to increase the size of the cup forming die to account for the lack of plating. Also, other lots with the same problem as TwicePop's .44 reply, a recall was issued by Winchester for certain lots.

Woofie,

Thanks for the update. I'll stick with the CCI-34s, they perform the same and fit as well as the old white box Winchesters.

HTH,
DocB

 

[Iowa Fox]

Thanks Woofie, I've got a bunch of them that just fall in and out of cases.

Sometimes at the range I see Winchester brass on the ground missing primers. Some of them must have made it to loaded ammo.

 

[358WCF]

Why all the Winchester hate? I’ve had more FTF with CCI & more cracked radius leaks with Federal than I’ve ever had with WW primers which I prefer & use primarily. I’ve been using these red box Winchesters in mid range LP 45ACP loads with great success for the last year. a good replacement for RP 2 1/2s. After reading thru this there’s not much real data, mostly specs & speculation, so I added 5 rounds in the middle charge weight for 4 widely varying calibers with a range of powders to rifles I was taking to the range last week for a comparison. Everything was identical except the primers. I generally use 4 shot groups for development X 5 increments for a 20 round box. All the red box Match data is for 5 shots.

The red box WWs are copper colored rather than the usual brass color. Flipped over the anvil is brass & the foil is green. They also seated very easy so they must be smaller in diameter. Maybe I’ll measure them one day. The lot # used is USA005G.

The test guns are hunting rifles. The 358 Winchester & 338-06 Ackley sport 1.5-5x scopes. The 25-06 has a 4-16x & the 22-250 Ackley has a 6.5-20x. Scopes (or my eyes) may limit group size in the larger cals. It was a good day to shoot groups at 70* with very little wind. I may have had too much coffee or it was the residual from a round of meds but I felt a bit shaky that day. All velocities are instrumental at 10 feet to middle screen of an Oehler 35, not adjusted to muzzle velocity.

Starting with the 21” barreled 358. This was a new powder workup with RL10X. Lapua 308 brass, blue box WLR, & Sierra 225 Spitzers. At 43 gr. charge, the groups were almost identical down to size & shape for 4 shots at ¾”. One of the red box group was a called pull & opened the group to a little over an inch. This lot of WLR has been a bit warmer & faster than all older lots.

WLR Match
Hi 2492 2505
Lo 2475 2489
Ave 2485 2498
ES 17 16
SD 7 6

The 338 Imp. has a 25” barrel. Also a new powder workup. Hornady 35 Whelen brass reformed, fireformed & on, I believe, their 4th firing. WLR from the same lot as above, IMR4451, & Speer 200 Spitzers. Groups were not so great but started closing at higher charges. At 62.5 gr. groups were the same shape but the match stuff was about ½ the size of the WLRs… except for a flyer. Might have been me.

WLR Match
Hi 2793 2777
Lo 2774 2758
Ave 2784 2767
ES 19 19
SD 7 6

The 25-06 is a 700 LR so 26”barrel. PPU brass, the same WLRs again, H4831SC, & 115 Ballistic Tips. Groups were less than remarkable but improved with more powder. The comparison groups at 52 gr. were both equally poor.

WLR Match
Hi 3025 3030
Lo 3008 3013
Ave 3019 3019
ES 17 17
SD 7 6

Finally the 22-250 Imp. with a 24” barrel. PPU brass Federal 210M, 46gr. of Accurate 2700, under a Hornady 53Match HP. This combination shot well over the winter but wasn’t too happy at 70*. There were 10 loaded with each primer. 5-shot groups of each primer were fired alternately at 2 targets to end up with 2 10-shot groups. The 210M group was .922 for 9 shots with a flyer ½” away. The WW red box group was .879 for 7 shots with flyers about ½” out to the north, northwest, & south. *The 1st shot @3877 was a clean barrel.

210M#1 WW#1 210M#2 WW#2
Hi 3911 3929 3921 3928
Lo 3877* 3901 3895 3904
Ave 3896 3917 3905 3916
ES 34 28 26 24
SD 13 10 10 9

It looks like there’s not a whole lot of statistical difference between the red box & regular WLR or Fed 210. ES & SD were a tad better in all cases, but not enough to get excited about. Velocity was up a few fps in 358, 25-06, & 22-250 with both fairly fast & slow burning powders, ball & extruded, but down a few fps in the 338 with a 4350 substitute.

Not sure what to make of the whole thing but glad to have these primers. They were cheaper than WLRs when I got ‘em. They all went bang the first try & none pierced. Discuss among yourselves.

Well hell... the #s all ran together after hitting the go button. They still look fine in edit mode.

 

[ronemus]

I settled on standard WSR primers for my .223 match loads with RL-15 and N-550 for 2 decades; they had the best ES/SD and never had an issue with pinholes/cracks over tens of thousands of rounds. For LR primers in .284 with RL-17, WW was beaten by Federal GM. I'm looking forward to testing the WW Match versions to see if there is a difference.