Winchester brass ??????

[AWLEAPHART]

What makes brass smaller at neck shoulder junction?
Brass has been full length size with Redding bushing die. Not every piece of brass out of the bag is this way but about 60 percent is. Brass has been fire formed 2 times. NO neck turn. I have been sizing the brass so I could seat bullets by hand with a little force. Doing some neck tension test and that’s when I noticed that the bullet is hard to seat when it reaches the neck shoulder junction. I can tell it with my Wilson seater also. Is this what you get with Winchester brass? I have read good things about Winchester and bad thing about Remington brass. laupa does not make 6mm Remington brass. I wish they did. I need to check and see if Norma makes 6mm Remington brass. It’s bad when you look at rifle chambering due to if Laupa sales that caliber brass.
Thanks

 

[AWLEAPHART]

ok,
Cut brass open with a tube cutter right below the shoulder. The ok cases has a reading of .2425 and the tight ones has a reading of .238~. I take it that the brass is just thicker? Also it's just a little above the neck and shoulder juction.
Anthony

 

[Catfish]

Sounds like your shooting a hot rod. I have that problem with my 224 TTH and my 6-284`s. Your problem is that the brass on the shoulder of the brass is flowing into the neck causing a ring at the back of the neck. The only way to cure you problem is by inside neck turnning. I hope it`s eather a 22 cal. of a 6mm because they are the only 2 size inside reamers I can find.

 

[AWLEAPHART]

I have noticed that the ones with the tighter necks weight more. 1 to 2.5 grains. The ones that does not have the tight neck problem weigh a lot closer with in .075 grain.
Anthony

 

[Nomad47]

What you hae is called a donut (some call it the "dreaded donut"). It can form from converting brass from a smaller caliber to a larger caliber. And it can form as Catfish said - by the thicker brass of the shoulder flowing into the neck.
Ii is easy to feel the donut after the case is fired by inserting a bullet. I take a small rat-tail file and remove the donut. Most guys neck turn as Catfish mentioned.

 

[Sray53TXTN]

What you hae is called a donut (some call it the "dreaded donut"). It can form from converting brass from a smaller caliber to a larger caliber. And it can form as Catfish said - by the thicker brass of the shoulder flowing into the neck.
Ii is easy to feel the donut after the case is fired by inserting a bullet. I take a small rat-tail file and remove the donut. Most guys neck turn as Catfish mentioned.

Fine chain saw blade file works great & quick as well (light touch until bullet drops freely).
Has same issue on 284 brass after sizing up my Lapua 6.5x284 brass, even using 3 steps, still had some with donuts.

 

[AWLEAPHART]

This brass has not been neck turned at all but from what I have read what do you think of just putting .002 cut groove about 1/3 down the shoulder only. Do you think this will stop the brass flowing from shoulder to the neck. Maybe it will stop at the groove cuy. Just an idear.

 

[Elwood]

Norma don't make 6mm Rem brass, but they do make 7x57 which is the parent case I believe. Just a case of necking it down in a 6mm Rem die, but I think you would have to neck turn as well.

 

[AWLEAPHART]

I took two cases and smoked them with a lighter. One in 6mm Remington and the other in .284 Win. My dies are both Redding full length bushing dies. I have the top screwed down very light on the bushing and resized both case with the dies. I did not know that the bushing does not go all the way down to the neck and shoulder juction. On 6mm Remington it leaves a.090 gap and on the .284 its about .054 gap.
The .284 bullets are seated long so the bullet is a good bit above this area in the case. The 6mm Remington bullets seat below this area. Well at the .090 above the shoulder where the bushing stops is where the brass is thicker. The bullet stops at the same place the bushing in the die does. I guess the brass is flowing from the shoulder and stoping at this spot where the bushing also stops. I know you can tell by now this is driving me up the wall. Maybe the true way around this is to have a longer throat in your rifle.
Thanks alot Anthony

 

[Nomad47]

Shoot a whole bunch of hot loads. Throat erosion and you'll have your longer throat.

 

[Lucky]

Do not have experience W/ W brass in this Cal but have experienced substantial doughnut simply changing from 260 Rem to 260 Ack Improved after 3 fireingings, 1 fireforme & 2 additional fireings. Lapua Brass.The way i recognized this was by trueing the necks w/ a K&M turner using their inside trimmer mandrel. Dont know if this would be limited to Lapua brass or if it's a common prob

 

[AWLEAPHART]

If brass flow causes the neck to taper being thicker at neck shoulder juction. Why does my fired formed brass and resized brass have taper on the outside of the neck still. Is this normal for a .284 Winchester? By looking at my reloading book it's the same size at neck shoulder and end of the neck. I am only putting about .001 neck tesion on my bullets.
Anthony

 

[jonbearman]

Its a shame that forster doesnt make reamers for their case trimmer like they used tor maybe they still do.I have one of their neck reamers I made to fit an rcbs trimmer.

 

[expiper]

Anthony ...welcome to the world of "donuts"....its all about the hole....and Lapua brass wont solve the problem....evn though it is prolly the best out there....IMHO most of the cause is overworking the brass due to missmatch between brass/chamber/resize die.....if they are not working/sized/matched in concert,,you get donuts and web stretching and all sorts of problems.....some major die makers make their dies wayyy too tite,so that the ctgs will fit "anything" out there....this is why I like the Redding dies and Kiff reamer combo.....he knows the exact dims of their dies and can make you a reamer that matches the Redding dies (type S or conventional)....this way you are not squeezing the brass so far that it grows in length and flows foreward....the brass will eventually get thinner at the web and thicker at the donut area....that brass is going somewhere,,,and constantly having to trim is the sighn......just size enuff to get em bak in the gun with minimal bolt strain (check headspace in some form or fashion).....and things should improve.....Lapua brass is not a cure all for the various miss-matches that are possible.....Roger
PS..when you talk to Kiff and spec out your reamer ...ask him to make the shoulder radius as sharp as practical...at the body and neck junctions....this will help slow the forward flow of brass and prevent/cure lots of brass problems.....if you don't do this you will hav trubl no mater what brand/type of brass you are using....

 

[GNERGY]

Forster makes all sorts of inside neck reamers and makes special sizes on request.
Tarey